These prices ... really?

Vendors are not to blame. If the consumer will not buy a coral at the insane price. Then the vendor will either sit on the coral or lower the price. Some vendors get creative by naming them with crazy buzz words. Don't hate them they do it because some people just have money to blow. I don't have that kind of money. There is one piece in my tank that cost over 30 bucks and that is only because it was a large torch. I am not even sure how many heads are on it. I buy corals that appeal to me that are at a reasonable price. My tank is for my family and I. Not the Zoa/Paly collector or the SPS only club. Buy what you like and can afford. In a couple years the designer frag of today will be available from other consumers that have frags from their colony at a reasonable price. Like many on this forum have told me and many others. PATIENCE.
 
High prices will always be in the hobby because there will always be newcomers with big pockets that are basically addicted to filling thier tanks with the newest, latest, prettiest coral. I used to be a "collector" of the latest coral. Always wanting the newest reverse watermelon, Bubble bum, Alien eye Calice, ultra aussie acan, Red selago, Pink lemonade, Myagi tort and the list goes on. Eventually I broke the bank and someone else took my place.

Now I feel more like Revhtree. You go ahead and buy all those "brand name corals". I'm just happy to have a colorful reef tank that isnt costing me $2-400 a month in total expences. The thing I've learned over the years of 'collecting" The beginner corals like birdsnest and catspaw's that grow like weeds give me the least amount of stress and fetch me the biggest return in store credit and beginner frag pack spending money. Ultra corals are finicky, grow slowly and from across the room, aren't that much more exicting than a plain old millepora or montipora.

Dont worry about all those pricey corals. In a few years they will be the old run of the mill corals and there will be a new set of "brand names" the next generation of reefing addicts will be spending too much money on.
 
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I don't mind the naming at all. I actually like the fact that when you say "miyagi tort" I know exactly what out looks like. That's one positive thing about the named corals. It also makes it easy to search and see what coral it is. I don't feel that having a name would set the price as higher than the rest though. That depends on the asking price. Many of these names come and go and some are going to be with us forever.
 
I completely disagree. I love the naming aspect. It creates more variety, makes it easier to know what your getting, and lets be honest there are some insanely nice named coral. Like jaw breaker shrooms.. yes they are pricey but can you imagine having a tank full of them? I'd much rather have jawbreakers than a bunch of green shrooms if they both cost 10$ each AND GUESS WHAT every single person thats ever laid eyes on one would say the same exact thing and that my friends is demand..
 
Not really, because I could have a mess of Florida ric and Yuma for the price of one jaw breaker. To each their own though :-)
 
Personally I don't see the big deal with "Jawbreaker shrooms" You're paying $200 for a pencil eraser sized shroom that in 5 years, "Might" start showing little tiny specs of green and red? Maybe shrooms just aren't my thing.
 
Not really, because I could have a mess of Florida ric and Yuma for the price of one jaw breaker. To each their own though :-)

+1 for the price of a jaw breaker I could have a large array of rics that boast more color, and would cover more area, which to me is where its at.

Been wanting to start a ricordia rock for some time now. I think 10 ricordeas adds a great deal of color.
 
I actually find it exciting that there is a lucrative market for certain frags. It gives a hobbyist a chance to recoup some of the expenses of maintaining a successful, thriving reef. My main gripe is the misrepresentation of the corals being sold. There IS photoshopping going on, along with the extreme cropping and black background, the results is an artificial looking color. Basically a scam. You can see this over and over again when a hobbyist must try to color up a frag to it former artificial glory, unsuccessfully. It's a disturbing trend.
 
Honestly with some of these new coral prices I thought the vendors were having a contest to see how high they could raise their prices and see how many suckers they could get.
 
I hate to see people argue over what a certain coral is. They base these arguments on how thick the band of yellow is or how many white dots are near the mouth and ridiculous things like that. Does it really matter?
I understand that a name is helpful for classification and husbandry sharing purposes. But that's not why most people are asking for a name.
Plus if any coral didn't have a ridiculous name it would be worth half as much as what it is being sold as. I know thats because the customer is willing to buy it, but that just shows how gullible, ignorant or just plain stupid some people can be. Sure, drop a bunch of cash on a gorgeous coral, I'm happy if people wana do that. That's up to you not me. But dropping a bunch of cash on a name? That just stupid.
I believe that's why frags are going for $1000+ per polyp or eye or mouth or whatever you wana call it.
 
Honestly with some of these new coral prices I thought the vendors were having a contest to see how high they could raise their prices and see how many suckers they could get.

+1, it was pretty wild when Kraks were even $500, now it seems every new polyp/acro is $200+ even if they're bland.
 
+1 for the price of a jaw breaker I could have a large array of rics that boast more color, and would cover more area, which to me is where its at.

Been wanting to start a ricordia rock for some time now. I think 10 ricordeas adds a great deal of color.

I would personally choose this
uploadfromtaptalk1402455558309.jpg

over this
uploadfromtaptalk1402455811034.jpg

And I may even choose this one for $10 over it
uploadfromtaptalk1402455870095.jpg
 
A vendor challenge: who can mark up and photoshop a coral the worst, not even offer a frag pic and actually get someone to pay it. Lol it looks like they are having fun with it. If you look at it that way it actually makes it possible not to be disgusted.
 
Everyone has different budgets and different tastes. Costume jewelry looks just as pretty as designer jewelry, its just what you want as well as what you are willing to pay. Designer brands, cars such as Ferrari, jewelry such as Van Cleef & Arpel, don't necessarily reflect value of a car or adornment. You choose what you like and you pay what you feel is appropriate. No hands held behind your back. There is nothing brighter than a green slimer, and nothing in my tank gets as much oohs and ahhs as a torch and a bubble coral by my friends when visiting.

Beauty, taste, cost, all for each to make their own choice. The only rip--off that I can see is photo altered (vs corrected) pictures. So many perspectives on that topic. I see lots of "blue" pictures not temperature corrected and some of these pictures get all kinds of kudos and attention as well as raves--shocks me every time. But again to each their own. Oversaturated photos does seem like cheating but it is apparently more common than it should be.

Some of us live near vendors and it is a treat to see mother colonies in person. And yes indeed, wild colonies come in with wild and crazy colors. And pretty much never stay that way. And yet, there are endless threads on wild colonies being hyped and fawned over. Can't beat a tank raised coral for demonstrating vitality and color long term particularly when it has incredible coloring.

Some are outraged by "high priced" coral. But again free choice isn't it. What do you pay for a hotel room, $69 a nite, $269 a nite. An acquaintance just shared that when in Italy, he and his fiancé spent $6,000 a night! Not for me to criticize and way too much for me. but everyone gets a bed to stay in at each hotel regardless. I am poorly gifted with analogies so I should stop. But the point is, there are lots of great corals, super bright, super colorful and well priced. To each his own. Its a big ocean and the variety seems endless and the choices go on and on...
 
I don't see the issue with naming at all. I think it's fun to say the least and the pricing is fine to a point. I'm a college student so I know what being on a budget in this hobby is all about but I would be lying if I said I haven't bought a polyp for over 200. I save and sell a few frags and that's how it works for me. Am I sucker? No I love the coral and I don't want to wait 3 years for it to be $20. Now 2000 for 1/2 in. When the coral is not even that nice..yes that's disturbing but I don't blame the consumers. Maybe they love the coral and have the money to drop. Oh well its not my life or my tank
 
Just a little perspective...

Back in the 1990's I was a partner in a fish store.

We used to get a fax from a Philippines Distributor.

one line would say Clam.

the next line would say Colored Clam.

The "Colored Clams" were $5.

We used to bring in 2-3 boxes of Colored Clams at a time.

With shipping included we landed the clams around $10-12

Well... the Philippine "Colored Clams" were all T. Crocea, 3-4"

About 1/3 were your basic blue or bluish green coloration. About 1/3 were a bit nicer and a full 1/3 were what people would call "ultras".

Back in the day... the collectors/distributors didn't modify pricing based on the quality of what they were sending you.

Today... you will get an email from an Australian exporter/collector with a picture of a 4" Chalice colony for $3000. Yes it's nice and it has a shot at being the next "big thing" or LE. But it's $3000.

The overseas collectors are "onto us" over here in the USA. They are pricing in accordance with what they feel WE will pay for it.

That is the big reason why nice corals cost big $$.

:) My LFS bought in from his supply 5" rainbow chalice it cost $150 + shipping and permit , and he selling for $450
 
I guess I am in the minority here but I am 100% OK with vendors charging whatever they want for their corals. Before you flame me, hear me out. For one, I am a huge proponent of the free market. The market will ultimately decide the "fair" price and as long as people are willing to spend four figures on a 1 inch frag, then by all means it is within the vendors rights to sell it at that price. This point has been made already.

What hasn't been covered so much is the following point in which I will use the pharmaceutical industry as a reference point. People like to get on big drug companies for charging exorbitant amounts of money for certain drugs in the US - especially those used for terminal illnesses. They also point to places like Canada and the EU because the cost of prescription drugs is so much cheaper. What they fail to acknowledge, and likewise, what I think goes unacknowledged too much in our hobby, is the effort that goes into developing those drugs/procuring those continually new and interesting corals. The US leads the world in developing new drugs. These drugs cost billions to develop. The motivation for developing these drugs is that they can be patented and sold for a large profit in the US. It's when the patents wear off and the drugs become available through generics that the cost comes down. I would argue that if the US didn't reward drug companies with patents and the ability to set whatever price the market will buy, the motivation of these drug companies to continue to find new drugs would diminish. And ultimately, the rate of new drug discoveries in the US would diminish. Likewise, the amount and variety of corals available in the hobby would diminish if vendors couldn't make such profits on new corals.

In my mind, vendors are like the drug companies putting out the R&D and when a certain coral gets sold, grown out, and fragged and shared, that's like the equivalent of a drug coming off patent and having generics available. There is one particular vendor which comes to mind that I can remember posting videos of their efforts undertaken in order to procure new corals for the hobby. This particular vendor makes trips to some very remote and inhospitable areas of the world, living in squalid conditions and putting their own personal safety at risk, all in the name of finding new corals. Now I really understand that love of the hobby has a lot to do with it but I have to think $$ profits play some role as well. Even if a vendor simply just has a connection in Japan or some other supply chain, fostering that relationship, maintaining it, and keeping it going takes effort. I don't have the ability or desire to visit third world countries and dive in dangerous waters, nor do I have the first clue about establishing relationships in foreign reef dwelling countries in order to get my coral. So if a vendor wants to charge $500 for a crazy coral I can pay that price and have it all to myself. Or alternately I can go travel across the world, dive 100 ft, and get it myself. I'd rather pay $500 (or do what I normally do and wait until the cost comes down in a year or two).

So if a vendor wants to charge an insane amount of money for their stock, I am OK with it. I won't be the guy paying the up front cost (because I can't afford to spend that kind of money), but months or years down the road when the coral goes "generic" and is widely available at a cheaper cost, I'll be able to pick it up. In the meantime though, I am thankful for that vendor and likewise, thankful for the guys with deep pockets who buy the hot issues because I think they serve an important purpose. Think about it. How many chalices and acros are available to the hobby?! A ton. Same thing with acans and zoas, etc. I think that has to do with vendors being motivated to constantly find newer and hotter corals so they can sell them for real high prices. The hobby in general benefits with the amount and variety of corals that come through this relationship.
 
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Great topic and this debate is not going anywhere. Supply vs. Demand. Period. It's free market and blame yourself first before blame vendors.
 
(I think another reason we don't see more pictures of these pieces in more peoples tank is because they can't replicate the colors of the overly saturated pictures against a clean black background in their tank and are either embarrassed that they "fell" for it or simply don't want to hear the eventual "I told you so" or "I knew it was too good to be true" from others.) I think that pretty much says it all.
 
Honestly with some of these new coral prices I thought the vendors were having a contest to see how high they could raise their prices and see how many suckers they could get.
+2 well said even I am seeing some of these sps frags fetch in some jaw dropping numbers. I like to collect mainly chalices and shrooms but like most folks been saying on here with time the supply and demand eventually even out and prices will drop. Theres no secret the chalice market has seen that in the past couple of months take for example my miami use to sell for bug bucks just last year now u can find eyes for as cheap as 30 bucks an eye only a handful of chalices will keep there value high such as bpc ft that one will never drop in price just my.02. So in conclusion these vendors posting up 2k frags plus shipping is hilarious and im glad im all lps id never drop that type of money even if I started an sps tank and I hope u sps collectors wise up
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

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