thinking about giving up

[kennydoll]

hey reefers, i wanted to discuss something with all of you. i’m thinking about giving up for a while, whether it’s temporary or permanently. i have 2 tanks currently set up, and one that i’m currently tearing down. let me tell you why.

a lot of you who followed my last threads know of the incident with my lfs, buying a naso tang who ultimately had velvet and wiped out everything in my 125 gallon tank. since then, after going fallow and fixing things, even adding some clean stuff like new sand and rocks to the existing, my lfs promised they would replace every fish that died from the velvet incident as long as the new fish was of equal or lesser value. that being said, over the last month and a half, i received a healthy scopas tang, a breeding pair of misbar clowns, a healthy valentini puffer, and a.. not so healthy bicolor angel. well, after adding the angel, MY WHOLE TANK GOT VELVET AGAIN. he’s gotta he the culprit, and i didn’t quarantine him because i literally picked him up the minute he arrived at the lfs and he was still in the bag and everything. every fish i add gets a 15 minute bath in a fish preventative, and a fresh water dip JUST IN CASE before going in the tank. how did this happen? i’m not sure but i have lost pretty much everything. again.

i’m genuinely thinking about quitting. in my 55 gallon, i have a 2 year old HEALTHY breeding pair of lightning maroon clowns. thinking about selling them because i know for a fact they don’t have velvet. they haven’t been exposed to anything. they also have laid two clutches of eggs since i got them, and they are beautiful. i have a totally healthy breeding pair of orange spot gobies, as well. along with a full grown Golden head sleeper goby. i have a small school of green chromic, totally healthy. and a bicolor blenny. all healthy, in my 55 that has been running for awhile. AND SO MANY SNAILS AND HERMIT CRABS. also, a long spined urchin. 2 sand sifting starfish.

i also have about 200 pounds of live rock, and $200 worth of artificial corals that i had custom made from RocknReefs. three canister filters. three of the filters that hang on the back. 2 sumps with some of the plumbing. they’ve never been set up. a bunch of frozen and dried food. like, 4 powerheads. 3 air pumps. soooo much airline tubing. expensive LED and T5 lighting systems. thermometers. heaters. any liquid medication or additive you’d need. water tests. a holding container. EVERYTHING. i have it all.

recently, i have gotten into breeding ball pythons, so i thought about converting my tanks into rainforest terrariums for my display snakes, but i’m not sure. i love the fish and “mini ocean” in my house, but i’ve gone through so much money just to lose it all. and i know that’s the ultimate challenge of this hobby, and that’s what could make it fun. it’s so hard, though. it’s making me wanna rip my hair out and i have so much down the drain in just livestock i’ve lost because of this lfs.

i’m gonna think about it, talk it over with my family and see what they think about converting completely to reptiles. if i do finally decide to sell all of this, i’ll post pictures of the livestock, as well as the supplies i have if anybody wants it, we can work out a deal with pricing and everything.

any thoughts?

 

[kennydoll]

if somebody buys the fish i have, i’ll do a freshwater dip and soak them in the fish bath before i give them to you. just an fyi. all of the fish i will be selling haven’t been in the infected tank or touched anything associated with it

 

[ScooterV]

Quarantine would be a thought. But, if you also enjoy reptiles and can re-purpose some of it it's a hard personal call to make.

Otherwise, we ALL had a steep learning curve, and many (like me) have repeated some mistakes even when we knew better It's devastating though to lose so much, both financially and emotionally. If you decide to give it another go, then you need a QT plan. It's much less expensive in the end. Best of luck to you though, either way!!

 

[davocean]

My thoughts off the top of my head just reading this post is you should seriously consider setting up a QT to save headaches in the future should you stick w/ the hobby.
If you failed to QT, it was not the fault of your LFS

 

[HB AL]

That’s a bummer, if your really that burned out and you tear down your tanks I would suggest to keep everything you have just Incase you get the itch to start up again someday, thus saving you a ton of dough versus buying everything again. Where in California are ya located, sounds like that lfs has a velvet factory going. I don’t quarantine but buy all my fish from the same lfs that takes pride in there fish systems.

 

[davocean]

That’s a bummer, if your really that burned out and you tear down your tanks I would suggest to keep everything you have just Incase you get the itch to start up again someday, thus saving you a ton of dough versus buying everything again. Where in California are ya located, sounds like that lfs has a velvet factory going. I don’t quarantine but buy all my fish from the same lfs that takes pride in there fish systems.

OP mentioned getting one fish straight out of the bag before going in LFS tanks, assuming that means safe.
I think it would be terrible to name that LFS as problematic.

Every fish bought at any LFS should be treated like it may have a disease, always, failure to QT is just not responsible reef keeping.

It actually sounds to me like the LFS is going above the norm to help OP recover, even though it really is not their fault, disease can be shipped to any LFS no matter how good they are.

 

[KrisReef]

Fish in the bag sometimes arrive dead because they were sick in the ocean or exposed at the wholesalers before they are bagged.

If you stay in the hobby you should assume that all livestock is contaminated before you buy it and bring it home, and treat all new additions as likely vectors of multiple diseases or pests.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

It’s ok to change.
It’s not failure.
It’s ok to enjoy something new.
You may find what you have learned is what you needed for the new chapter.

 

[WVNed]

It's a hobby. When it stops being satisfying to you go find another and move on.

 

[NS Mike D]

It's a hobby. When it stops being satisfying to you go find another and move on.

exactly, on the other hand, it's the set backs that make successes even that more rewarding:



THE MAN IN THE ARENA
Excerpt from the speech "Citizenship In A Republic"
delivered at the Sorbonne, in Paris, France on 23 April, 1910 by Theodore Roosevelt

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

 

[HB AL]

Every fish bought at any LFS should be treated like it may have a disease, always, failure to QT is just not responsible reef keeping.

Luckily for me I buy my fish which is not often as they just don’t die on me from the same lfs. I don’t quarantine, that doesn’t make me irresponsible. I added my 1st fish in over 2 years to my tank last week a clown trigger and traded in my gold spot rabbit to make room. People that quarantine fish are not more responsible than people who don’t. It all depends on where your sourcing your fish from and how healthy your system is.

 

[Kendrid]

If you are going to stay in long term you have to quarantine. It isn't an option.

 

[davocean]

I'm not trying to bash OP w/ my statements, I saw a post where someone may need help and that was my intention.

My only point here is place blame where it belongs, not on the LFS.

I'm sorry but if you do not QT new fish, you are putting your existing fish in harms way, and in this manner, you are not being as safe and responsible as the people who do take the time and effort to QT

So, while I may sound harsh on this particular post, it's helpful to those reading to understand what is the more responsible thing to do.

If you are not QT'ing new fish, you are taking a gamble.

 

[NS Mike D]

not quarantining is a risk. we make calculated risks. The OP was mistaken by assuming that velvet would not originate at the wholesaler, and ignored common sense warning since the fish did not appear so healthy. Many parasites are commonly present but will outbreak once a fish's immune system is compromised - like the stress of getting to market.

I would agree with not calling it irresponsible, but it is a lesson to be learned (albeit the hard way) that if you take the risk of not quarantining, at least understand the value observing the fish at the LFS to make sure it's active and feeding, and ask how long the LFS has had the fish. That is no guarantee, but at least you better your odds that the fish's immune system isn't compromised at the time of purchase.

 

[Epic Aquaculture]

I'm not trying to bash OP w/ my statements, I saw a post where someone may need help and that was my intention.

My only point here is place blame where it belongs, not on the LFS.

I'm sorry but if you do not QT new fish, you are putting your existing fish in harms way, and in this manner, you are not being as safe and responsible as the people who do take the time and effort to QT

So, while I may sound harsh on this particular post, it's helpful to those reading to understand what is the more responsible thing to do.

If you are not QT'ing new fish, you are taking a gamble.

Affirmative

 

[NS Mike D]

was the LFS also to blame for selling the fish if it was "not so healthy" and direct from the wholesaler - or at least advise the OP to quarantine the fish and explain the correlation between stress, immune systems and parasites.

Also, isn't it common practice for LFS and wholesalers to use copper to treat fish before they get sold? If so, would the length of time being exposed to copper treated water at the LFS reduce the chance of bringing a parasite into your home aquarium?

 

[ScooterV]

Wholesalers that use copper to "treat" before getting sold? Please share which ones, need to use them more!! Or, most likely, you are thinking of sub-theraputic levels wholesales and many LFS use to keep the fish looking decent until it's no longer their problem?

Right out of the bag after arrival though, poor fish was removed from the ocean and subjected to who knows what at each step along the way

 

[davocean]

I've been around for a long time and I admit I've taken my share of risks over the years, so I'm certainly not holier than thow or anything, and in fact it's that lame feeling of failure knowing I could have prevented it is why I speak up.

I'm just saying, if OP did QT, we may not be reading this thread, and maybe Op would be feeling more successful and more positive about the hobby right now.

I also feel for those rare LFS that may actually be cool and helpful, not sure how your areas are but ours are dropping like flies, so it would be a shame for an LFS to be bashed w/out any wrong doing, and certainly a fish still in bag not even touching their tank water would not be their wrong doing or poor husbandry.

 

[HB AL]

If you are going to stay in long term you have to quarantine. It isn't an option.

Thats not a true statement, ive been doing this for 30+ years and have never run a qaurantine tank. But i do buy all my fish from the same lfs, who obviously sell healthy specimens. Just added this clown trigger 5 days ago, float and plop.

 

[shred5]

I'm not trying to bash OP w/ my statements, I saw a post where someone may need help and that was my intention.

My only point here is place blame where it belongs, not on the LFS.

I'm sorry but if you do not QT new fish, you are putting your existing fish in harms way, and in this manner, you are not being as safe and responsible as the people who do take the time and effort to QT

So, while I may sound harsh on this particular post, it's helpful to those reading to understand what is the more responsible thing to do.

If you are not QT'ing new fish, you are taking a gamble.

I agree 100 percent. This is not the local fish stores fault.
People need to quarantine unless a fish store does. There are very few that do.
People also need to research. A naso in a 125 not good either.
This hobby is not for everyone and with the hobby being under fire right now we need to do better.