This could end very badly for our hobby ...

[Elementalj]

Yeah, there's that! :-/

 

[Maacc]

Yes

Add contributing to the delinquency of a dog.

Yes she is suffering mightily with a left over broken elk antler

 

[Elementalj]

Oh my

 

[DanConnor]

Someone should start a similar initiative in Hawaii about the evils of snorkeling. If you've every been to a reef heavily used by snorkelers, you know its real.

 

[Elementalj]

I don't see the big deal. I grew up in north central Florida and the rule was only kill it if you're going to eat it.

 

[Elementalj]

Someone should start a similar initiative in Hawaii about the evils of snorkeling. If you've every been to a reef heavily used by snorkelers, you know its real.

Been to the keys recently?!?

 

[zoomonster]

Someone should start a similar initiative in Hawaii about the evils of snorkeling. If you've every been to a reef heavily used by snorkelers, you know its real.

Too true snorkelers are bad enough but careless divers are worse with both smashing corals with fins. As elemental mentioned "been to the keys recently". I've been a diver for many years and always try to be cognizant and careful of my surroundings when on a reef.

Also like someone touched on these sort of eco terrorists likely have no problem sitting down to a nice lobster, fish or sushi dinner. Commercial fishing IMO does far more damage to the oceans (think Japan in particular) than the, trivial in comparison, ornamental fish industry. That's not even mentioning what China did to a reef to build a military base in contested territory or dredging in Australia. I also think there's a bit of exaggeration in the film (and some non Hawaiian fish) because Hawaii is regulated. Don't know the particulars but I suspect far worse than even strict Florida.

 

[Elementalj]

Too true snorkelers are bad enough but careless divers are worse with both smashing corals with fins. As elemental mentioned "been to the keys recently". I've been a diver for many years and always try to be cognizant and careful of my surroundings when on a reef.

Also like someone touched on these sort of eco terrorists likely have no problem sitting down to a nice lobster, fish or sushi dinner. Commercial fishing IMO does far more damage to the oceans (think Japan in particular) than the, trivial in comparison, ornamental fish industry. That's not even mentioning what China did to a reef to build a military base in contested territory or dredging in Australia. I also think there's a bit of exaggeration in the film (and some non Hawaiian fish) because Hawaii is regulated. Don't know the particulars but I suspect far worse than even strict Florida.

The keys are in such perilous shape, I'm ashamed of us. Been in florida all of my life, surrounded by immense beauty. Only to watch it become covered in algae.

Pennekamp is like a boneyard now, compared to even when I was a child. The restoration projects are helping, but with the tourism and clumsy people I'm afraid for its sake.

 

[Maacc]

The keys are in such perilous shape, I'm ashamed of us. Been in florida all of my life, surrounded by immense beauty. Only to watch it become covered in algae.

Pennekamp is like a boneyard now, compared to even when I was a child. The restoration projects are helping, but with the tourism and clumsy people I'm afraid for its sake.

Deeper reefs further down the keys are in better shape. They have done some good work at hens and chickens, and crocker to stop anchor damage.

 

[zoomonster]

The keys are in such perilous shape, I'm ashamed of us. Been in florida all of my life, surrounded by immense beauty. Only to watch it become covered in algae.

Pennekamp is like a boneyard now, compared to even when I was a child. The restoration projects are helping, but with the tourism and clumsy people I'm afraid for its sake.

South Florida is doomed if they don't get the army corp of engineers out of the everglades and reign in the sugar cane farmers (and others) polluting everything. I'm sure most have seen the "south Florida overrun with green sludge the consistency of guacamole" stories on the news. Between that and Zika...

 

[Elementalj]

We were there in May. Saw how things are looking, and hope it's not all for naught. When I was young, we used to go down to Anne's and swim with the sea horses. Miss that.

 

[Maacc]

South Florida is doomed if they don't get the army corp of engineers out of the everglades and reign in the sugar cane farmers (and others) polluting everything. I'm sure most have seen the "south Florida overrun with green sludge the consistency of guacamole" stories on the news. Between that and Zika...

Agree completely there they can't decide between storing water for a drought, letting too much water out at the beginning of hurricane season to create a drought with no storms, then not fix the levies while the water is low so they can create a drought the next year. :mad:

 

[Elementalj]

Here's some news to brighten the conversation. Anyone heard of Colin Foord? He and his group are plucking hardier corals out of government cut to save them. When you have a chance YouTube the term 'coral city'.

 

[Elementalj]

South Florida is doomed if they don't get the army corp of engineers out of the everglades and reign in the sugar cane farmers (and others) polluting everything. I'm sure most have seen the "south Florida overrun with green sludge the consistency of guacamole" stories on the news. Between that and Zika...

Not trying to get political, but it's purely POLITICAL

 

[melev]

My concern with the film is that you'll end up with 6-8 people stating opinions while a handful of images of 500 dead tangs are on the screen, or they may film some bleached corals, which the aquarium trade has no impact upon. Blackfish was an opinion piece, and it's been a disaster for Sea World.

 

[Elementalj]

My concern with the film is that you'll end up with 6-8 people stating opinions while a handful of images of 500 dead tangs are on the screen, or they may film some bleached corals, which the aquarium trade has no impact upon. Blackfish was an opinion piece, and it's been a disaster for Sea World.

Agreed. It overshadows some of the conservation efforts they've made in the past. But it doesn't negate the responsibility of what has occurred with them keeping the larger porpoises poorly.

As for the content of both films, it presents a dilemma that public opinion can and will cause harm, even when there may be none.
We as hobbyists have to prove even if by no major action, that our intention and success is tied directly to the health of the animals we keep.

Our contribution to the greater good in this case may be just us sharing and showing off our setups and tanks.

 

[jeremy.gosnell]

The aquarium industry has some issues when it comes to wild collection, that's a fact. Sadly, the industry has been less than proactive in dealing with the problems surrounding species coming from under-regulated or un-regulated locales. Cyanide fishing still takes place, more than most hobbyists realize. However, Bob Witner is not the ambassador needed to bring about change. He wants one thing, the end of marine aquariums and wild-livestock collection. He discounts the role livestock collection plays in vitalizing villages that previously caught food-fish off their reefs. Winter is known to exaggerate facts, paint the portrait he wants to be seen and quite frankly he is a rude person. I've locked horns with him several times over the years. Winter and Umberger (the two voices behind this film) believe that captivity for all animals is wrong and they want an end to the marine aquarium trade. In many ways, Hawaii is a model for livestock fisheries. Blackfish damaged the reputation of Seaworld while discounting the good Seaworld does to protect wild killer whales and the fact that without parks like Seaworld, we would be way behind in our knowledge of marine mammals. Today, anyone can start a go fund me, Kickstarter or Indiegogo and if they raise enough capital, make a documentary film. Without doubt, Witner will use the power of emotion and suggestion to attempt to start a public outcry against marine aquaria. Hopefully he will fail. He is doing a great disservice to aquarists and the environment, by failing to bring about realistic, honest change by ignoring some facts, exaggerating others and creating his own narrative.

 

[Elementalj]

The aquarium industry has some issues when it comes to wild collection, that's a fact. Sadly, the industry has been less than proactive in dealing with the problems surrounding species coming from under-regulated or un-regulated locales. Cyanide fishing still takes place, more than most hobbyists realize. However, Bob Witner is not the ambassador needed to bring about change. He wants one thing, the end of marine aquariums and wild-livestock collection. He discounts the role livestock collection plays in vitalizing villages that previously caught food-fish off their reefs. Winter is known to exaggerate facts, paint the portrait he wants to be seen and quite frankly he is a rude person. I've locked horns with him several times over the years. Winter and Umberger (the two voices behind this film) believe that captivity for all animals is wrong and they want an end to the marine aquarium trade. In many ways, Hawaii is a model for livestock fisheries. Blackfish damaged the reputation of Seaworld while discounting the good Seaworld does to protect wild killer whales and the fact that without parks like Seaworld, we would be way behind in our knowledge of marine mammals. Today, anyone can start a go fund me, Kickstarter or Indiegogo and if they raise enough capital, make a documentary film. Without doubt, Witner will use the power of emotion and suggestion to attempt to start a public outcry against marine aquaria. Hopefully he will fail. He is doing a great disservice to aquarists and the environment, by failing to bring about realistic, honest change by ignoring some facts, exaggerating others and creating his own narrative.

Precisely!

 

[saltyhog]

Well said Jeremy! What angers me is his misrepresentation about Hawaii. It's a pretty good model for how things should be done. No cyanide, quotas, preserve areas,monitoring, etc.

Now we need to inform hobbyist about the countries/locales that are using unethical practices so we can make informed decisions. If we act together those areas will reform their methods or be out of business.

 

[Untamedrose]

hey Q... behaviorial biologist Jonathan Balcomb? is he involved with this anti reefing thing? His book what a fish thinks looks interesting....but Im hesitant as I found such on the dark hobby fb page.

As far as the topic in general. I buy tank breed speices of fish and corals when available. I avoid spieces that I know are in trouble like dwarf sea horses, and blue tangs. I am hopeful and excited that we will have way more options in tank breed in the future.
I agree there needs to be regulations, quotes etc (but also dont know enought to go and this is what they should be!)
but at the same time I'm looking at the fishing industry practices are the world and going what?

Shark fin soup in china for example, fleets of fishing boats doing nothing but catching sharks, only to cut off their fins and dump them still alive back into ocean. All b/c shark fin soup is a really expensive delicacy that biz men apparently love so it's cheaper to just dump the rest of the meat...thats some horrible stuff, least kill it humanily and use as much as you can.