This could end very badly for our hobby ...

[Brew12]

I think if people are blind to the one sided subjectivness of documentaries, why aren't marine aquarists creating their own rendition? Why are we subject to arguing without being heard? Articles are one thing. Getting someone to read it is another.

Marine aquarists can try, but only other marine aquarists would care. The majority of people love the dramatic, not the scientific. The image of something dying or being destroyed will have a much larger emotional impact than statistics about the good done by the aquarium hobby. This is why disaster movies are shown on major TV channels and scientific documentaries are shown on the smaller fringe channels. This is why negative events with shocking headlines are on the front page of newspapers with the positive stories on page 3.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Marine aquarists can try, but only other marine aquarists would care. The majority of people love the dramatic, not the scientific. The image of something dying or being destroyed will have a much larger emotional impact than statistics about the good done by the aquarium hobby. This is why disaster movies are shown on major TV channels and scientific documentaries are shown on the smaller fringe channels. This is why negative events with shocking headlines are on the front page of newspapers with the positive stories on page 3.

But see, you are lacking creativity. Create a documentary of people creating "disaster movies". If it's an issue, fight back. Or consider what we are doing IS wrong. *shrugs*

 

[Elementalj]

I must be a contrarian. This just made me want to set up my first reef tank even sooner. And, I will do so completely guilt free. I've identified a source of dry rock that is quarried from dry land in Florida. My live rock will be dry rock that was conditioned in a tank. The majority of fish that I want can be captive bred. My corals can all be obtained from frags purchased from other aquarists. Impact on the ocean? Hopefully positive since it is hard to look at a beautiful reef tank and not think that reefs are something that need to be preserved.

However, as a sign of respect to Snorkel Bob and all his hard work bringing these issues to light, I may immortalize him by putting a laminated picture of him in my tank. I'm thinking it would look great lining the bottom of my future sump where all such detritus should collect.

Ahhaahahahaaha! Do it! Do it!

 

[Elementalj]

I think if people are blind to the one sided subjectivness of documentaries, why aren't marine aquarists creating their own rendition? Why are we subject to arguing without being heard? Articles are one thing. Getting someone to read it is another.

All you have to do is search on YouTube and you'll see an EXPLOSION of positive information.

Look for videos from Coralmorpohlogic, and the documentary they did on them named Coral City.

I'm a big fan of their efforts, and the interest that the city of Miami has in their project.

 

[reeferfoxx]

All you have to do is search on YouTube and you'll see an EXPLOSION of positive information.

Look for videos from Coralmorpohlogic, and the documentary they did on them named Coral City.

I'm a big fan of their efforts, and the interest that the city of Miami has in their project.

Yes. However, corals aren't the issue in the 'dark hobby' film.

 

[Elementalj]

Yes. However, corals aren't the issue in the 'dark hobby' film.

You and I both know the crosshairs will move towards us shortly afterwards. So why not start our defense at this very moment?

I do not disagree with your position, I myself have killed a few fish in the past out of negligence, and I've always known of the cyanide collection methods used by some. Learned a hard lesson in both empathy and economy. But this has the potential to kill a thriving segment of a vast market, and create in its wake an even "darker" hobby. We must stand against this and present our case to the public as a whole. The information and experience of members like ourselves could do that by contribution and exhibition. So I think we should dedicate a thread to the positives we find. People are curious mostly, so educating the public shouldn't be that difficult.

 

[reeferfoxx]

You and I both know the crosshairs will move towards us shortly afterwards. So why not start our defense at this very moment?

I do not disagree with your position, I myself have killed a few fish in the past out of negligence, and I've always known of the cyanide collection methods used by some. Learned a hard lesson in both empathy and economy. But this has the potential to kill a thriving segment of a vast market, and create in its wake an even "darker" hobby. We must stand against this and present our case to the public as a whole. The information and experience of members like ourselves could do that by contribution and exhibition. So I think we should dedicate a thread to the positives we find. People are curious mostly, so educating the public shouldn't be that difficult.

Agree. In our defense, it would difficult to say coral propagation is destroying the reef systems. Since we propagate in our own aquariums. Essentially, R2R is trying to educate the public. Unfortunately, youthful reefers tend to not listen. For example, a new reefer, just today built a 10 gallon tank. He's stocked it with two clowns. He then wants to know if he could add anthias, or gobies and maybe a firefish. I gave him his options, one being anthias are out of the question. He moved on with other fish that wasn't even part of the original equation. I asked why he couldn't upgrade to a larger 20 gallon that would fulfill his fish ambitions? No answer. Most likely went to another hobby forum to get better results that would tend to his over stocking ideas. This is the reality we face.

 

[Elementalj]

Agree. In our defense, it would difficult to say coral propagation is destroying the reef systems. Since we propagate in our own aquariums. Essentially, R2R is trying to educate the public. Unfortunately, youthful reefers tend to not listen. For example, a new reefer, just today built a 10 gallon tank. He's stocked it with two clowns. He then wants to know if he could add anthias, or gobies and maybe a firefish. I gave him his options, one being anthias are out of the question. He moved one with other fish that wasn't even part of the original equation. I asked why he couldn't upgrade to a larger 20 gallon that would fulfill his fish ambitions? No answer. Most likely when to another hobby forum to get better results that would tend to his over stocking ideas. This is the reality we face.

Uggggghhhhhhhhmmaaayyyyyyggggggaaaaawwwwd

Here! A little equal opportunity for him![emoji1617][emoji1610][emoji1603][emoji1596][emoji1589]

 

[becks]

i would not worry, if it gained movement maybe more legislation would be introduced including Asia, but money talks and there is to much commerical interest for it to be banned completely.

 

[Untamedrose]

What's more concerning is that outlets like Nat Geo (whom are respected and considered accurate by the general public) have turned to Rene Umberger as a guide and authority on marine aquariums. She was quoted in a recent article that claimed 90% of fish collected for the hobby are collected with cyanide. I countered it with an article which I later retracted because of murky data. However, for a major environmental news publication to turn to a fringe activist as an authority on something is irresponsible at best.

Nat Geo is now owned by Murdoch/Fox....likely will never be the same again IMO but thats likely to get to political so not saying anymore lol

 

[tom reilly]

Everything with these people is hysterics. Reality doesn't matter.They are saving the world, results,side affects of their policies ,these things don't matter.

 

[wkscott]

However, as a sign of respect to Snorkel Bob and all his hard work bringing these issues to light, I may immortalize him by putting a laminated picture of him in my tank. I'm thinking it would look great lining the bottom of my future sump where all such detritus should collect.

Forget Snorkel Bob. My hero is SpongeBob. He's a truer representative of the marine environment and he doesn't lie!

 

[Elementalj]

Forget Snorkel Bob. My hero is SpongeBob. He's a truer representative of the maine environment and he doesn't lie!

Yea!!!!!!!!!!

 

[eatbreakfast]

National Geographic is doing another article in the future that will hopefully provide a more balanced view. They spent a few days out collecting with fishermen from RVS Fishworld, one of the largest suppliers of Filipino fish.

In many areas sustainable fish methods have been used for a while, and local fishermen are beginning to appreciate their role in coral reef preservation. Properly trained fishermen in reef settings can have a positive affect on conservation, much like native fishermen in some areas of the Amazon river basin have stemmed some of the tide of deforestation in the areas that they collect wild fish.

Also, this documentary seems big in our mind as aquarists, but there are a lot of documentaries released every year, and honestly how many do you watch? Honestly? It is usually only about a subject that interests you already or has gotten good reviews elsewhere. Blackfish had an impact because it received good reviews and most people in America are familiar with Shamu and SeaWorld, There are no guarantees that it will be good or that there will be an appetite for it.

For every documentary that sparks any kind of collective outrage, there are countless others that people shrug off after viewing.

The negative press was big news in the hobby, but was it really a conversation piece for any of your non fish friends?

 

[umac]

Heres what I sent to the contact page

I understand were there is demand there will be supply, and of course there should be regulations on importation of marine life - or any life for that matter (Has to be ALL countries). But to attack and call it a "Dark Hobby" is wrong in my opinion, STOP with the am-onus music trying to scare people, how about you state FACTS and let people decide for them selfs. you know like a real documentary? NO ONE loves marine life more than the hobbysts. And no one wants to destroy the reefs NO ONE, I get your trying to educate people.. "This is Hawaii treasure, this is Hawaii culture and their stealing it" -says the guy. my eyes just rolled so hard my retina detached.

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

I think it's about time though, in all fairness. I'm sure it's overplayed in certain areas, but it is a legitimate number. The import rates of fatalities, the LFS deaths, the newcomer deaths..
If you google 'reef tank help dying' it paints a dim picture.

I do however think the hobby should be a licensed situation. Depending upon what you keep, you have to pass a 50-150 question test. That would negate the sheer amount of individuals who buy stuff, and it dies before their tank is properly cycled, meanwhile they find out they shouldn't have done that. That in itself would also cut down on the 'Dory' individuals. It would cut back on the number of imports and the fatalities therein that are inherent. It would also create a more educated crowd to which the collective knowledge would advance faster.

I see both sides of the argument, but I'm not sure which direction is going to "save the planet".. (I think the planet is screwed when it comes down to it, just a matter of time) The sheer amount of water wasted in this hobby has to be astounding. What do you think will happen when the freshwater is used up? The continents will be harvesting ocean water to turn into freshwater! Then what will the hobby do? Waste 2/3 of that to turn it back to saltwater! lol

More scrutiny on methods leading to better methodologies, more educational inductions into the hobby, less importing.. All equates to more education OUTSIDE of the hobby from legitimately qualified individuals INSIDE the hobby. Even if I wasn't in the hobby I would laugh at someone inside the hobby when they said, "The hobby doesn't affect the ocean! It's the pollution/fishing/dredging/etc!!" Their concerns are legitimate, but the displacement of blame when I'm sure numbers are not 'zero affected' shows how much they really care.

 

[Brew12]

Anyone else notice that they were trying to make a point of the fact that yellow tang populations had been decimated and that algae was covering the reefs while at the same time showing a large school of yellow tangs swimming in relatively algae free reefs?
Hmmmm

 

[Christopher B Keyes]

I disagree with this. The research and success stories that we as hobbyists and the industry as a whole provide is valuable information that we are willing to share as a community. We respect our "livestock" and are always looking for ways to breed them internally within the hobby. Most would agree that a zero impact aquarium is something to strive for and we are all looking for ways to make that happen. It is forums like this where the knowledge grows and continues to advance. Perhaps we could be the answer to much of the coral bleaching and dwindling fish populations around the world. We may play a small part but I believe it is offset by our contributions now and in the future. Don't go after the little guy. We are here to help. Hopefully we are here to stay. P.S. isn't cyanide capture illegal in US costal waters?

 

[reeferfoxx]

P.S. isn't cyanide capture illegal in US costal waters?

Cyanide capture is illegal mostly everywhere. Just like murder.

 

[Ljaus]

The hobbyist only buys what's already collected, the rules for collecting aren't set by the hobbyist. His problem with the collection should be aimed at those who set the rules. If he is worried about collecting, push to make it a no go marine zone they exist in Australia and they are called pink zones, they are 100% no go for any activity not even allowed to motor your boat through a pink zone, there are multiple marine parks in region of the barrier reef that limit what can be done. Green zone= no fishing but you can dive there no collection is allowed, pink zone= no go what so ever....... Oh wait if it's made a no access reef zone he can't operate his business there.