This hobby is getting even more ridiculous with pricing......

[Brew12]

Most of my powerheads are 15 or 20 years old so they cost me practically nothing. The new ones are garbage so I would rather try to find an old one used than buy something new.
You can get some of that stuff for practically free when people get out of the hobby. I got a lot of stuff from LFSs going out of business as they do all the time.

You can also get nice fish for free or practically free. When I see fish in a store that have obvious ich I offer the owner $5.00 for it. Usually they are glad to get rid of it because they don't have the time, or knowledge to treat it.
I can cure that in a day or two and that is how I got quite a few fish.
I recently got a copperband butterfly for $5.00. Great fish. I gave it away because he was to small for my tank as my large one would kill it.
I also got a filefish for less than that.

Everyone should remember that this is the guy who got 14 girls to pay for his date with a supermodel....

Not all of us can find bargains like that!

 

[Paul B]

It works for me.

 

[ReeferCub]

An indifference toward others or reality due to wealth can raise the price of housing or food well beyond the amount that typical households can afford. See SF as a good example: dot com billionaires swarm to the city, raising the rents and cost of living to unsustainable levels. Most of the dot com folks were not bad at heart (hopefully the rich jack wagons that have a campaign to ban homeless people because they pay enough in rent to not have to see them are just an ugly outlier). It was their indifference to the true value of money that screwed it up for everyone. It wasn't intentional, that is just the way it works.

Coral is the same way. You have some people that can afford to pay whatever for coral. If there is a demand for $60 a head hammers and $500 1/2" montipora then there will of course be vendors ready to sell at that price. Which makes other vendors that may have ethical concerns about it have to sell at that price as well or go out of business.

The equipment is totally overpriced. We all know that, but we don't have an option. And that certainly prices a large swath of the population out of the hobby.

Ultimately, there is nothing anyone can do. With wealth gaps the way they are this is bound to happen in just about everything you can get involved in.

I was about to post something similar. And then I read your post and thought I could not have said it in a better way. Agree with you 100%.
Encouraging more aqua culture firms is the way to get the price of corals down.
Sharing among hobbyist is another option too. I am not asking hobbyist to give away free frags. I am saying do not ask for $50 when someone is looking for a handful of seed rock for his/her new tank.

 

[Marquiseo]

I don't honestly see how some hobbyists can defend the "premium" pricing. I guess it is an ego thing.
Often we see hobbyists attempt to make a name for themselves by buying premium cost corals and showing it off to get likes. It is similar to the way women show of their body on instagram or Facebooks for likes.

 

[Fercho]

So based on that, it still puts the blame on sellers. Even though retailers got it dirt cheap, they decided to mark up the price 10000% and the exporters noticed and wanted in.

Thinking the same exact thing, stores are greedy and really are taking advantage of us.

 

[Shameless_Dood]

I do think some pricing is out of control, but it's not just the reefing market. There are a lot of companies that have what I like to call, "Very proud of our product" syndrome and charge a very proud price for it. Sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it's not. In the reefing market (my opinion) I think a lot of the MAP products are the worst / best examples (MAP policy really hurts the LFS in my opinion, but that's another discussion). Those products may be mega cool, but I have a hard time feeling like I'm getting my money's worth in some of those products.

 

[TheHarold]

When I first started 6 years ago, $100 got me at least 6 nice, multi-colored corals. Presently, $100 is almost the same as the value a dollar in this hobby....worth nothing. You can barely get just 1 coral with $100. Once shipping is factored, you will breach the $100 threshold. Also, corals went from colonies, to snack size, to bite size, to residue. When does the madness stop?

I dont know where you're shopping. For me LPS is $10-20, prices have dropped like nuts in the past years. Same with acros............. find a new store lol

 

[Fercho]

I'm glad that this hobby is getting more expensive so people actually value the animals they are getting if it was cheap majority of the people would naturally be more careless with their tanks. Kind of like the freshwater hobby for the most part. People spend 5 dollars for a fish and throw it into a vase without cycling and let it sit there and die. I know it's counterintuitive and I can't afford most of the coral in the hobby unless I get a really good deal, but my value for those corals is still high. Money is the best motivator, it weeds out people that keep on killing their corals and fish, and cannot get themselves to learn things.

Very good point, i work as an interior decorator and work in people's homes. I have seen a few tanks in people's houses and sadly, a lot of them dont have a clue on properly setting up a salt water tank. The water in them looks durty, glass durty, gha all over and a few fish swimming in them.
It is really upsetting seeing live fish living in those filthy conditions.
You are right, if prices are high, lots of people will be discouraged from gettng in the hobby. I may not like some of the prices, but at least there is one positive thing of the price aspect.

 

[rockworm]

I don't honestly see how some hobbyists can defend the "premium" pricing. I guess it is an ego thing.
Often we see hobbyists attempt to make a name for themselves by buying premium cost corals and showing it off to get likes. It is similar to the way women show of their body on instagram or Facebooks for likes.

Can you provide sources for those egotists who want the likes? Your opinion is not fact. My opinon may be that you just want to buy the fancy corals at bargain basement prices. This does not make it a fact. If you don' t want to pay their price, then don't. Obviously others do.

This is not a matter of defending "premium" pricing. This is a matter of understanding how markets and economics works.

It all goes back to value for the purchaser. If a $150 coral frag provides value to me, then I will get it. You may not like it, but I may like the colour or texture enough to see it as a valuable addition to my tank.

A basic understanding of economics may help. Sellers can continue to raise prices, but if no one buys, they will go down. And no, sellers do not dictate the price. Buyers do. This hobby is a luxury, in that it is not a necessity, so expect prices to reflect this luxury niche.

I have seen these "overpriced" coral threads for the past dozen years. And I anticipate seeing them for the next dozen years.

 

[Oldreefer44]

As a former leader of a business with annual sales of over $100 million IMO pricing is almost always a function of supply and demand. Like any other retailer, supply builds up and prices go lower, in our case mostly in the form of special sales and auctions. Unfortunately after a while the retailer paints themselves into a corner because a high percentage of sales are sold this way at heavily discounted prices. Eventually regular prices become irrelevant unless it is something new and demand is very high. The other way to try to grow sales and lower expenses is to lower the size or volume of the product. Example; Potato chip bag sizes stay about the same. The amount of chips in them continues to shrink, just like the corals we get. About the only place that has surprised me with the size of the corals purchased has been Live Aquaria. Several times I thought I was getting a small piece only to be pleasantly surprised with a 3 or 4 inch colony.
When we stop paying more for less prices will come down and vendors will become fewer. Just my opinion.

 

[G-reef]

In my honest opinion..
It would all be worth it if we were getting quality products and healthy corals.
Most of ua dont even realize what were putting in our systems.
Ive seen too many Georgious super high end sps syatems get infected and die due to that "oh so reliable source ".
With those $500 frags!!
Almost seems like some of them would rather keep this hobby to themselves.
Having a saltwater or reef tank isnt enjoyable when you get ripped off.. in the build...
Spend countless dollars...
Hours on end...
Stress thru the process...
Thank when all seems like its going great...
Only to find that you inherited a pest that wipes out your inhabitants.
WEVE BEEN HAD TIME AND TIME AGAIN!!!
WHEN WILL IT STOP??

 

[ReeferCub]

Very good point, i work as an interior decorator and work in people's homes. I have seen a few tanks in people's houses and sadly, a lot of them dont have a clue on properly setting up a salt water tank. The water in them looks durty, glass durty, gha all over and a few fish swimming in them.
It is really upsetting seeing live fish living in those filthy conditions.
You are right, if prices are high, lots of people will be discouraged from gettng in the hobby. I may not like some of the prices, but at least there is one positive thing of the price aspect.

That is like saying food prices should go up so that people dont waste food.
Those who argue this logic never realize that those waste will continue to waste whatever be the price. It is not about money its about caring...its about attitude.

 

[.AcroKiller.]

I agree 100%. I hate to say it but this website is responsible for some of it

I agree with this post. Especially how this website protect the sponsors.

 

[Elder1945 Verified Sponsor]

I agree with this post. Especially how this website protect the sponsors.[/QUOTE

I find it hard to blame R2R for a industry wide practice of sellimg frags and or coral for inflated price... The word inflated used extremely loose as coral and fish price is set by demand and demand alone..

 

[Bdog4u2]

I agree with much of this. The only aspect I don't agree with is the equipment being overpriced. How many skimmers does a company sell in a year? Even for the largest companies, this isn't a very high number. No one makes enough to justify setting up their own manufacturing facilities. They have to pay another factory set up costs to do a production run. They pay for the product. They have to pay for design, sales staff, shipping and advertising. They have to (or at least pretend to) offer customer service. They need to cover warranty costs. Even if skimmers were made by a very small company with 4 employees and sold 5,000 skimmers per year, how much would the margin need to be to provide a reasonable income to those 4 employees? It will be a lot more than the cost of the manufacturing process itself.

That's what China is for, low price Manufacturing. how can Chinese led lights charge $50-100 and stay in business but others charging up to $800 and only 1 year warranty. if they want to justify the price by their equipment being made better then give longer Warranties

 

[Elder1945 Verified Sponsor]

That's what China is for, low price Manufacturing. how can Chinese led lights charge $50-100 and stay in business but others charging up to $800 and only 1 year warranty. if they want to justify the price by their equipment being made better then give longer Warranties

I think there is a big difference in a G4 Radion and Chinese black box leds.. With or without warranty.

Also with spending more money domestically you support local businesses and local supply chains. It is hard for me as a manufacturer to compete with china when on advrage they pay about $250 a month in the Provence I deal with.... I have to pay $15 a hr and have insane payroll and government taxes. And that is for unskilled labour.

 

[rockworm]

I think there is a big difference in a G4 Radion and Chinese black box leds.. With or without warranty.

Also with spending more money domestically you support local businesses and local supply chains. It is hard for me as a manufacturer to compete with china when on advrage they pay about $250 a month in the Provence I deal with.... I have to pay $15 a hr and have insane payroll and government taxes. And that is for unskilled labour.

I agree with you. I also want to add that there are companies that spend a lot on R&D and charge a price to help recoup that. Then you have a foreign company copy it and charge a very low price. That foreign company has put no resources into develping a competitve product. Just copy it.

 

[.AcroKiller.]

I find it hard to blame R2R for a industry wide practice of sellimg frags and or coral for inflated price... The word inflated used extremely loose as coral and fish price is set by demand and demand alone..

Really? Post something negative about WWC and let's see what happens.

 

[BigJim]

In my honest opinion..
It would all be worth it if we were getting quality products and healthy corals.
Most of ua dont even realize what were putting in our systems.
Ive seen too many Georgious super high end sps syatems get infected and die due to that "oh so reliable source ".
With those $500 frags!!
Almost seems like some of them would rather keep this hobby to themselves.
Having a saltwater or reef tank isnt enjoyable when you get ripped off.. in the build...
Spend countless dollars...
Hours on end...
Stress thru the process...
Thank when all seems like its going great...
Only to find that you inherited a pest that wipes out your inhabitants.
WEVE BEEN HAD TIME AND TIME AGAIN!!!
WHEN WILL IT STOP??

That sounds like a horrible hobby. I'm glad my experience has been different.

 

[Elder1945 Verified Sponsor]

Really? Post something negative about WWC and let's see what happens.

I can see that there might and probably is censoring on this site just like most forums.. I would have to argue this is a pretty open forum to post on.. I have some thread that are not that nice to Platinum sponsors and they are left alone.

I can name a few other reef forums that are bad......... If this site needs sponsors to keep up and running I do not see a issue with them protecting a big contributor within reason...... With this said I still don't see how this site could be a major factor in a world wide practice of selling inflated and or "overpriced" frags.... Again the mere phrase "overpriced" is extremely subjective...