This hobby is getting even more ridiculous with pricing......

[Willz]

Really? Post something negative about WWC and let's see what happens.

I think that it's all fun and games and keep on reefing until there is an issue with a sale gone wrong. Then good luck hearing from the Admin. That is my beef based on personal experience.

As far as the site promoting this behavior just ask yourself a question: would I sell my high dollar coral anywhere other than R2R? If you answer anything other than yes you are an altruist or confused. The whole culture in this site is about high dollar equipment and corals in a family friendly environment. Allowing negative posts to hang out isn't good for getting more sponsors.

I know that and while I may not agree with all of it it's still the best game in town. It's a business and the sponsors keep the lights on.

 

[madr2d2]

Simple, the first thing to understand is that is a business. If the business owner has a client who is willing to pay whatever price they ask for, well... then who is to blame??
Perfect example: the bounce mushrooms, paying over a thousand dollars for a frag?? just crazy, not even for 1 whole specimen..

Master scolys reaching 1800- 2000. just not right.

But as long as there is a buyer who is to blame??

ONLY US, THE REEF LOVERS.

 

[SPotter]

Fragging should now be called nubbing!

 

[Elder1945 Verified Sponsor]

I think that it's all fun and games and keep on reefing until there is an issue with a sale gone wrong. Then good luck hearing from the Admin.

As far as the site promoting this behavior just ask yourself a question: would I sell my high dollar coral anywhere other than R2R? If you answer anything other than yes you are an altruist or confused. The whole culture in this site is about high dollar equipment and corals in a family friendly environment. Allowing negative posts to hang out isn't good for getting more sponsors.

I know that and while I may not agree with all of it it's still the best game in town. It's a business and the sponsors keep the lights on.

I still don't make the connection from this site admin to a bad sale.. If I had a problem with a sale for lets say WWC how is it R2R issue? WWC is a advertiser (Sponsor) on this site and others.. When I buy a bad product I don't go to the sign manufacture and demand action...

I am just trying to get why R2R has anything to do with WWC or any of its sponsors.... They are payed advertisers..

The only way I would see and issue is if they were not upfront on who was a sponsor of the site but they are...

 

[ebushrow]

I'm going to start a coral business with a Costco philosophy! Charge a yearly membership and barely sell above cost. Then sell so much of it I can't do anything but make a profit! Who's in?

That was tried and failed ....nationwide even....still failed

 

[.AcroKiller.]

I still don't make the connection from this site admin to a bad sale.. If I had a problem with a sale for lets say WWC how is it R2R issue? WWC is a advertiser (Sponsor) on this site and others.. When I buy a bad product I don't go to the sign manufacture and demand action...

I am just trying to get why R2R has anything to do with WWC or any of its sponsors.... They are payed advertisers..

The only way I would see and issue is if they were not upfront on who was a sponsor of the site but they are...

Not a good example about the sign manufacture. This forum is about people sharing knowledge and info and posting a bad review is part of what a forum is used for.

 

[ebushrow]

MAP is just minimum advertised pricing. Retailers can sell it to you for whatever they want, they just can't advertise it for less. There is nothing illegal about selling it for less. I don't agree with MAP pricing and I am glad I have never paid it.

You are clearly wrong here...would you like to read some MAP pricing contracts? Why do you think marine depot and brs has sales that exclude reef octopus, ecotech, etc....and when you go to Macy's why the coupons rarely work on polo, nautical, etc....

 

[BNUTTHEHUT]

The choice is there when a retailer releases a new frag with a silly name and sells it at $699 a 1/2" frag. I promise you retailers do have the option to sell $10 frags. Let's say a retailer buys a large 13" colony for $150 from a wholesaler. A retailer could frag the colony into 32 pieces and heal them up. At $10 a frag, the retailer would profit $170. But since some retailers want fast money, the cost is marked up to $50+ a frag to profit $1450.

You can't buy a 13" colony for $150. Even if you could, you still have to ship it, dip it, frag it, photograph it, let it cook, let it heal, market it, sell it and ship it. All those things take time and cost money. Not to mention as a shop you loose at least 10% on rtn and doa

 

[Elder1945 Verified Sponsor]

Not a good example about the sign manufacture. This forum is about people sharing knowledge and info and posting a bad review is part of what a forum is used for.

Posting a bad review on something is what a forum is used for until it hurts the person or people who own the forum..

There is a whole section on this site for reviews... This all said I will have to agree to disagree as I think are positions on this issue are far different....

I cant believe you didn't like my sign reference....

 

[ebushrow]

Not a good example about the sign manufacture. This forum is about people sharing knowledge and info and posting a bad review is part of what a forum is used for.

Yes but this thread is not about bad reviews...that's what the vendor feedback forum is for,...this is a rant from someone that doesn't understand the costs associated with doing business with hobbies ''tis in this area.

 

[Elder1945 Verified Sponsor]

Side note my BF1 is down the cost of that game is astronomical and there should be outrage...

 

[tj w]

It all comes back to what the customer will pay. That's what drives the prices in our hobby. Do I blame the business? No, but there are things that could definitely change on their end. This is a hobby, it all cost money. If you don't like the prices then don't buy. Don't complain about those that will buy for those ridiculous prices.

 

[Willz]

Posting a bad review on something is what a forum is used for until it hurts the person or people who own the forum..

There is a whole section on this site for reviews... This all said I will have to agree to disagree as I think are positions on this issue are far different....

I cant believe you didn't like my sign reference....

Hey guys, my one example was just a time I got burned by another member and was not a comment about a sponsor. My example was poor, I'm just butt sore from a bad sale and didn't get too much support from this site in how to handle the situation. Which in retrospect wasn't their job to give friendly advice to their members.

 

[ebushrow]

well first profit does not equal sales - manufacturing cost. if it did a lot of companies would be on fortune 500. I looked online for Neptune's 10K (annual financial report) so I could better estimate the cost but I could not find it. I'm guessing they are a privately owned company so they will never release that information. but lets compare this to a new smart phone production costs (iphone 5). They average $200, of that 10% camera,20% touch screen, 20% electronics that the controller does not have. Of the production cost, 3% is for sensors, 5% power, 5% memory, and 5 % assembly. that is less than 20%. So 20% of $200 is about $40. The issue manufactures have is not with low margins it's with low sales. If you sell 100 items at $1000 each you make less than selling 5000 items at $300. Not only do you make more but also your costs decrease. now lets think of a protein skimmer. what is it? an acrylic molded tube, a pump, so plastic fitting. Yes, I definitely believe most skimmers cost is under $10. I could make one in may garage for under $40. I hope they have a better economy of scale than I do at producing 1 unit.

What about advertising, updates, overhead, contracts with providers.....you conveniently missed those here

 

[psirex]

Stop feeding the culture......

 

[ebushrow]

The key word here is "hobby " not necessity....don't like it...move on...we will be fine here without you....the hobby will go on...

 

[Willz]

The key word here is "hobby " not necessity....don't like it...move on...we will be fine here without you....the hobby will go on...

Love it or leave it. That's the spirit!

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

This topic comes up every so often. The reality is that (just as several in this thread have already stated) this hobby is as expensive or inexpensive as you make it. Complaining about prices doesn't make sense in any hobby...by nature of it being a "hobby" it is a discretionary expense...so use discretion. You can choose to spend 12K (or more) on your reef equipment to have all the newest toys and drop $2k for a frag of Milli Vanilli Milli...or you can shop craigslist or the R2R marketplace or your local reef club for used equipment and hit the $5 frag bin at your LFS or buy low priced frags from your reef club members or off of ebay. I started out with a 75g tank that I bought for $50, a light I picked up for $20, a skimmer I picked up for $20 and a 20g tank I used as a sump. I bought frags for $10 ($20 if I REALLY wanted it), and ya know what? I loved that tank! Truth is that if you want, you can still do the same thing.

I spend a lot more on equipment and livestock now, but that's because my budget allows for it. If college students can keep reef tanks, anyone can. The question is whether or not you can be content within your means. If you aren't happy without the latest Psychadelic-Unicorn Acro, then cough up the cash (and don't complain about it...the seller will charge what buyers will pay). There's no ethical dilemma here. If it's worth it to you, pay it; if it's not, then don't.

 

[mattstanks2016]

This page has blown up

 

[ShinerMaginer]

Lots of deals through your local club, if you have one. Reefers helping reefers is one of the best parts of this illness.