We are our brothers keepers

[lps1212]

Unfortunately showing skepticism in a for sale thread is against the rules as well as questioning authenticity. Those comments are removed quickly. The unfortunate thing is that it is almost always the newer reefers that get caught by these things and then threads like this have to be created.

A little more leniency might save headaches in the long run.

+1 to this post I for one would hate to be a noob with an eye for highend corals come on to a site that is known for eye candy and buy a piece from someone weather vendor or reefer and get taken for my hard earned money. Especially when folks intentions on a thread is to look out for one another not necessarily looking to bully anyone or start drama around my parts we look out for one another and I feel its the same way on here. Thats why I felt that thread that got deleted twice or 3 times was a good thread to keep up just to let folks make there own conclusion up

 

[ritter6788]

+1 to this post I for one would hate to be a noob with an eye for highend corals come on to a site that is known for eye candy and buy a piece from someone weather vendor or reefer and get taken for my hard earned money. Especially when folks intentions on a thread is to look out for one another not necessarily looking to bully anyone or start drama around my parts we look out for one another and I feel its the same way on here. Thats why I felt that thread that got deleted twice or 3 times was a good thread to keep up just to let folks make there own conclusion up

The rules are the same for all members and sponsors alike. We aren't here to protect sellers. Feedback for a transaction can be posted in the appropriate forum. We don't need members, vendors, sponsors using the regular forums to hash out their drama. The thread you speak of was accidentally deleted once by a new mod trying to remove some off topic posts. The thread was actually found in google cache and reposted and is still visible today. It's in the seller feedback forum where it belongs.


Edit: It's actually in this thread you are posting in.

 

[RichieT]

The rules are the same for all members and sponsors alike. We aren't here to protect sellers. Feedback for a transaction can be posted in the appropriate forum. We don't need members, vendors, sponsors using the regular forums to hash out their drama. The thread you speak of was accidentally deleted once by a new mod trying to remove some off topic posts. The thread was actually found in google cache and reposted and is still visible today. It's in the seller feedback forum where it belongs.


Edit: It's actually in this thread you are posting in.

So it's not in the seller feedback section where it belongs? It's in an one off thread where if you were actually looking for it, it would be nearly impossible to find.

 

[ritter6788]

So it's not in the seller feedback section where it belongs? It's in an one off thread where if you were actually looking for it, it would be nearly impossible to find.

It's actually in both places. One of the members in the dispute chose not to respond to the thread. If you look, it's there.

 

[mnat]

Hahahaha! Good!

This person would also be able to control limited releases so the value stays where it needs to stay for the initial investors.

This is truly a winning scenario for everyone.

Color me absolutely shocked that the person who said this is now a vendor on here. This is why I started this thread because of people trying to take advantage of hobbyists.

 

[ssdawood]

Color me absolutely shocked that the person who said this is now a vendor on here. This is why I started this thread because of people trying to take advantage of hobbyists.

This is what bothers me too. I am loosing faith in vendors. Keeping the price high artificially just to protect the investment ? How about if the coral is nice price will stay up because of demand.

 

[hybridazn]

This is what bothers me too. I am loosing faith in vendors. Keeping the price high artificially just to protect the investment ? How about if the coral is nice price will stay up because of demand.

I agree with if the coral is nice the price will stay up on its own. Not by manipulation of the market. No worries though guys, ppl like this never stay in business long.

 

[mcarroll]

[...]Keeping the price high artificially just to protect the investment ? How about if the coral is nice price will stay up because of demand.

Ever read about how a publicly traded stock's "initial public offering" (or IPO) happens? Exactly like this....total (100%) back-room deal....absolutely legal.

Things like "market price" and "insider trading" aren't considered (or even possible) until the back-room folks have chopped up the IPO and locked in their profit with a sale and a pre-agreed price.

Once those pieces start to sell on the open market is when you get real competition (such as it is in stocks) between the stocks themselves.

The best advice I've ever heard or read regarding stock picking might apply to picking "high end" frags online:

"Buy what you know." --Peter Lynch, Beating the Street

Leave this advice behind and you're simply speculating....in corals or stock. Unless you're just swimming in money so that it doesn't matter what you do, speculating is usually (historically speaking) a really stupid way to invest. I suppose the conclusion with corals could be the same.

$0.02

-Matt

 

[lps1212]

Ah ok didn't realize that the actual thread in question was put up on this thread in page 6

 

[ssdawood]

Thanks Matt for the wonderful explanation. I had no idea price of stock is kept high artificially to protect the investments of the few. I thought IPO was locked for 30 or 60 days in which no one could sell it and after that it was traded.

Now I understand that its ok to keep the price high of high end corals. If it happens in stock market it can happen in coral an frag trading. Stupid me, I didn't even know what supply and demand was until a gentlemen like you explained it to me. See you learn something new on the internet.

I would like to retract the my statement. We should all help in keeping the price high artificially like it is done in finance sector. Only people with a lot of money can buy these corals and then sell it to people with lot of money all while maintaining an artificially high price. I get this, I understand this.

PS : Please forgive me if there are mistakes in my English, It is my second language.

Ever read about how a publicly traded stock's "initial public offering" (or IPO) happens? Exactly like this....total (100%) back-room deal....absolutely legal.

Things like "market price" and "insider trading" aren't considered (or even possible) until the back-room folks have chopped up the IPO and locked in their profit with a sale and a pre-agreed price.

Once those pieces start to sell on the open market is when you get real competition (such as it is in stocks) between the stocks themselves.

The best advice I've ever heard or read regarding stock picking might apply to picking "high end" frags online:

"Buy what you know." --Peter Lynch, Beating the Street

Leave this advice behind and you're simply speculating....in corals or stock. Unless you're just swimming in money so that it doesn't matter what you do, speculating is usually (historically speaking) a really stupid way to invest. I suppose the conclusion with corals could be the same.

$0.02

-Matt

 

[ssdawood]

So price manipulation is allowed for IPO of frags and once those frags hit the open market and compete with other similar frags then they compete. So maintaining this artificially high price is OK only when first round of frags hits the market and then it is controlled by supply or demand. Sorry I am trying understand this, so in future I can explain it to some kid like you explained it to me.

Thanks Matt for the wonderful explanation. I had no idea price of stock is kept high artificially to protect the investments of the few. I thought IPO was locked for 30 or 60 days in which no one could sell it and after that it was traded.

Now I understand that its ok to keep the price high of high end corals. If it happens in stock market it can happen in coral an frag trading. Stupid me, I didn't even know what supply and demand was until a gentlemen like you explained it to me. See you learn something new on the internet.

I would like to retract the my statement. We should all help in keeping the price high artificially like it is done in finance sector. Only people with a lot of money can buy these corals and then sell it to people with lot of money all while maintaining an artificially high price. I get this, I understand this.

PS : Please forgive me if there are mistakes in my English, It is my second language.

 

[mcarroll]

So price manipulation is allowed for IPO of frags and once those frags hit the open market and compete with other similar frags then they compete. So maintaining this artificially high price is OK only when first round of frags hits the market and then it is controlled by supply or demand. Sorry I am trying understand this, so in future I can explain it to some kid like you explained it to me.

Here's a more complete explanation:
http://www.investopedia.com/university/ipo/ipo1.asp
"How To Get In On An IPO"

 

[ssdawood]

Good Read, also makes sense since before the IPO none of the public money is involved. After the IPO hits the market ordinary public invests money and then it is regulated by supply and demand. Price manipulation is not allowed.

So the gentlemen making the claim above to keep prices up is only promising it to his original customers. Because if I follow your IPO logic, then the frags that did not originated from him will follow the supply and demand curve. How is this possible, He will maintain a high price of frag he sells of his initial offering.

As long as he maintains high price of the frag all future frags will be high priced too (artificially). This is price manipulation which is illegal even in the market no ?

Here's a more complete explanation:
IPO Basics: Getting In On An IPO | Investopedia
"How To Get In On An IPO"

 

[mcarroll]

Well, a key difference with the stock IPO is that the "institutional investors" end up with large chunks of stock. The intent is that those "large chunks" are big enough to cut up and sell individual shares at market price, usually many orders of magnitude lower in cost, where they get their money back - plus a profit - in the volume of stock sales.

The interesting part is when you see the market (real buyers and sellers like you and me) issue a smackdown to speculators (venture capitalist, investment banks, et al) when the IPO price craters as soon as there's a public trade. The hype becomes crystal clear as soon as the light of day is allowed in. Those large chunks of stock might end up being practically worthless if someone doesn't do their homework...easy mistake for a speculator. IPO's are a sucker's game, a bit like playing the lottery, but without things being as they are there would be very very few IPO's or they would be much much smaller. We (buyers and sellers like you and me) just don't happen to be the suckers in an IPO...it's the speculators with enough money to bankroll an IPO (or help). So no worries!

The best thing you can do is simply not participate in "IPO style" coral sales, and help your friends to understand them. There's nothing anyone can do to prevent someone who has $600 burning a hole in their pocket from spending it on a half-polyp of the latest coral that looks good under blue light and a macro lens. Notably, one cannot buy an IPO share of any stock on the open market...I'm guessing that corals and "coral IPO's" are intermixed for sale on the same "exchange".

Honestly, I think the average long term adjusted return for the stock market is still 12% or more...better than most investments that can be made by the general public. So it's not entirely a sucker's game....but the traditional IPO market is. Not sure if/how this applies to coral, but I figured it needed to be said.

Of course there are dud stocks, but if you buy what you know - a really simple rule - you don't have to worry much about most kinds of shenanigans like hype or skyscraper pricing. It also pays to have a very long term view in regards to holding what you buy. Buying and selling stock is a job (as a speculator), not an investment strategy. Don't know how this applies to coral either.

Nuff' said. Back to coral talk!

-Matt

 

[zoahoarder]

I'm not bashing someone it's my opinion just like it's always yours to protect your coral god :squigglemouth: no one else on here is answering everyone's posts when Mikes credibility is in question but you :noidea:. I'm sure the R2R family knows who's a cheerleader on here and for who :cheer2: I'm just one that hates to see someone get taken advantage of live by 1 rule treat others how you would like to be treated and I always treat people fair :bigsmile: feedback speaks for itself can't say the same for you there kiddo :rapture:

definitely late but "what the heck"+1 since everyone else did so great thread for entertainment also glad I was able to see what all the fuss was about from the original thread in question on pg6

 

[Audiofile18]

+1

I'm not bashing someone it's my opinion just like it's always yours to protect your coral god :squigglemouth: no one else on here is answering everyone's posts when Mikes credibility is in question but you :noidea:. I'm sure the R2R family knows who's a cheerleader on here and for who :cheer2: I'm just one that hates to see someone get taken advantage of live by 1 rule treat others how you would like to be treated and I always treat people fair :bigsmile: feedback speaks for itself can't say the same for you there kiddo :rapture:

+1-----------------

 

[Maximus]

Color me absolutely shocked that the person who said this is now a vendor on here. This is why I started this thread because of people trying to take advantage of hobbyists.

Wow! I can't believe he actually wrote that with a straight face? Benny, how is this a "truly winning scenario for everyone?" Is this a win for the consumer? I highly doubt that.

 

[Worldwide reefs]

Yeah I see nothing but bad news on this, bit I guess just like everyone is saying and I've been preaching for years for species who shouldn't be imported.. The best way to stop the ridiculousness and these vendors from hoarding high prices pieces of mother nature is to NOT support it, to not suggest, to not hype up these vendors large egos ( no one in particular sorry for those good ones, just saying) these corals are our planets, these corals are for generations, and generations to enjoy, protect, value, love, and hold true to pass on for years to come. And please dont get me stated on the ecological benefits of corals obviously, but I dont know...ill watch this all play out.

 

[lps1212]

Wow! I can't believe he actually wrote that with a straight face? Benny, how is this a "truly winning scenario for everyone?" Is this a win for the consumer? I highly doubt that.

+1 prices are high even for the highend buyer

 

[RichieT]

Another thing to keep in mind when buying from vendor or hobbyist. WYSIWYG is key. I've noticed a few posts recently with photos not taken by the coral's owner. This is always risky because you have no idea when or where the photo was taken and absolutely no guarantee what condition the coral is in currently.

Asking for WYSIWYG pictures prior to purchasing is 100% legit and responsible thing to do as a buyer, especially when dropping a large amount of cash on an item. You are protecting yourself and the coral.