Where does pest responsibility start?

  • Thread starter Thread starter ronnie
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It's the same principle as Costco or sams club - VOLUME! It may not be right but it does work for the most part. Car manufactures make hundreds of cars a day and sometimes they have millions of vehicles that need to be recalled due to someone missing something or a flaw in the design.
 
So how does ORA have reasonable prices on coral that go through a 6 month quarantine process? How is that viable for only them?

The way I see it is this.... If you can't ante up then you have no business playing the game!
 
It's the same principle as Costco or sams club - VOLUME! It may not be right but it does work for the most part. Car manufactures make hundreds of cars a day and sometimes they have millions of vehicles that need to be recalled due to someone missing something or a flaw in the design.

Wrong analogy unless the defective car starts to blow up all of the engines in the good cars around it.
 
I just can't wrap my mind around why people would want to argue this point.

The goal is not to do away with QT on the end user, it's to minimize the risk to the end user. It's about ethics and just plain laziness on the vendor side.

From my experience, I will not trust anyone, not even Ronnie, Ironically enough, he is where I got the AEFW. I know it wasn't on purpose and we both dipped everything that went into our tanks. I know he lost an entire tank to these buggers before. I've seen the skeletons in his garage.


This is about vendors stepping up to do what they should have been doing the entire time. It's for the best of our hobby.
 
Good for ora that is very good of them. I am sure the cost for them is aided in the fact they grow their own stuff out they do not buy what they sell so the upfront cost is not as much.
 
Ridiculous! The industry as a whole needs to do more to prevent these things from happening. The vendors, your words, need to do more if they're going to make all the money they make (which we all know is a lot! way too much imo) to insure they deliver a quality pest free product....period. All of you who are apparently trying to defend the delivery of poor quality corals to those of who spend our hard earned money honestly makes me sick! Your point of view makes zero sense
If you spend your hard earned money on poor quality corals that is no one's fault but your own. We should all as a hobbyist learn how to identify a good condition quality specimen from a poor one. If you can't do that you shouldn't and probably wont be in this hobby long. Now if said specimen is doing good or even ok but I see something that I know I can treat( AEFW , red bugs , zoa nudis) I will still purchase it knowing I will be responsible for its health not anyone else.
 
Aefw's are not on every colony either. So that argument falls flat as well. I have had them in the past and have had pieces that never had an issue or showed signs of them being on them. When dipped they were free of anything, no bite marks or eggs or adults. Some are tastier some are like the lima beans of acros I guess.
 
If you spend your hard earned money on poor quality corals that is no one's fault but your own. We should all as a hobbyist learn how to identify a good condition quality specimen from a poor one. If you can't do that you shouldn't and probably wont be in this hobby long. Now if said specimen is doing good or even ok but I see something that I know I can treat( AEFW , red bugs , zoa nudis) I will still purchase it knowing I will be responsible for its health not anyone else.
Hilarious!
 
Good for ora that is very good of them. I am sure the cost for them is aided in the fact they grow their own stuff out they do not buy what they sell so the upfront cost is not as much.

How is the cost for ora to acquire a coral different from the cost of other wholesalers and suppliers?
 
So how does ORA have reasonable prices on coral that go through a 6 month quarantine process? How is that viable for only them?

ORA has a business model in place where you can't order any of their frags unless you buy x amount of clownfish and so on. You can't just specifically order their frags on their own. That kind of helps offset the costs.
 
How is the cost for ora to acquire a coral different from the cost of other wholesalers and suppliers?

How often does ora introduce a new coral? Not very often they have been selling the same corals for years.
 
Like nova65ss said everyone in the industry from collectors on down to hobbyists would have to actively participate to do this. Because if one place fails in the chain of custody it sets up a domino effect for the rest of the supply line. Just think in the jump in prices that this would cause. It would at least double if not triple the cost per piece if every stop along the pipeline would have to set up a dedicated qt procedure and setup for every species. It's not as easy or cheap at the volume the wholesalers and retailers are dealing with based on their volume and turnover levels. Either they would have to have massive facilities to handle the load or they would have to dial back on their orders to deal with a reasonable amount at one time therefore the cost for those pieces would skyrocket. Some may be able to afford it and still continue in this hobby but some will not be able to. That is why regardless of what you think others SHOULD do it's about what YOU DO do. Haha I said do do!

See I'm not sure it does break down the entire supply line. Because if each stage is doing its part to QT and inspect for pests it should be caught and handled at some point on the supply line before it reaches that far.
 
How is the cost for ora to acquire a coral different from the cost of other wholesalers and suppliers?

I believe he is referring to them only selling so many types of corals, rather than bringing in new ones on a weekly basis. This would keep costs down and dead loss at a minimum.
 
ORA has a business model in place where you can't order any of their frags unless you buy x amount of clownfish and so on. You can't just specifically order their frags on their own. That kind of helps offset the costs.

Yes, from what I understand is that the minimum purchase for ora to allow you to have a business relationship is $5,000 minimum. I was at a lfs last month who was fortunate enough to have this relationship established. I can't speak of future minimum purchases, but this store didn't even have $1,000 in retail worth ora corals in stock 3 hours after a delivery.
 
Been following this one and have wanted to add to the discussion with out sound self promoting being a vendor myself. Not sure if thats even possible but ill try to give it a whirl. I have no intention of any hostilities towards any other vendor or hobbyist in any way:angel:. These are simply my thoughts


I have had the conversation with many customers and they can all attest to my own passion on the subject. Pest control is something i take very seriously. I can completely understand ronnies point of view as someone who has also had and lost a thriving sps tank to flatworms years ago. If you have not had them then you really just don't fully understand of the scope of the damage that they can cause. Even if your tank manages to seem ok, in the long run its just completely deflating as a hobbyist. The delight you once had looking at your acros is replaced by disappointment and paranoia.

AEFWs are by far the most underestimated and most damage causing pest out there. My heart still flutters a little when I see one fly off a new wild piece during inspection. the fact is that these things are one of the absolute worst aspects of the hobby. Untill some millionaire to be invents an in tank treatment we are stuck with them.

As a vendor I get asked very often by customers if they should dip there order. My answer is always the same and goes something like this.

"while I struggle to exhaust every effort and take an extremely aggressive approach to pest control in my own system I still could never suggest that someone not at least dip any new arrival with out exception. Full QT would be better" Anyone who has asked me this can attest to the following lecture they got from me about my obsessive methods on how i manage to do it and offers of how and what my exact methods are in detail. Granted i am a small timer vendor and do not have even remotely the volume of in and out type of sales as the larger guys but my operation is as such that if I contracted them in any of my systems it would be devastating. So its in my own extreme best interest as a business owner to keep them out at all costs. My inventory is comprised mostly of mothers grown from frags and are not easily replaced. its as simple as that. I DO NOT want them in my system. My efforts do not translate to higher costs. it's just what i need do to keep my mothers healthy long term.

Having said that, I can't say that I have ever had an order of wild pieces come in without at least one worm tucked somewhere and trust me if they are on them I WILL FIND THEM. I honestly can't see how any other vendor that is moving more could ever rid there system of them. They have them now and that is that. I would be even more suspicious of larger places that have been around longer. All it takes is one egg and the system is contaminated. To believe that any wholesaler is selling pest free sps is not realistic or even practical in any way. I would even go as far as to say impossible on that scale.


I, just like any hobbyist simply assume that any acro i buy has them and treat them as such. So its a fine line for sure. If you want to blame anything blame yourself or the explicative worm! In the end its the hobbyist or vendor(whoever is buying the corals) responsibility to keep them out of their own systems but the more aware people are of how to treat and effective QT methods, the less of a problem they will be with any luck.


FWs are just one of those things that you don't realize are as horrible as they are until you have them. I can feel it in the tone of some of the posters in this thread who have clearly been through it. Its a terrible experience and has a way of leaving scars. With any luck we will have a proven treatment eventually and discussions like this will be a thing of blissful nostalgia.
 
How often does ora introduce a new coral? Not very often they have been selling the same corals for years.

Do you know what they are currently growing out for future release? I have no idea, but what I do know is some of these corals took years to find one that meets their standards. They may have to frag a colony several times before they get a colony that they would consider releasing into the retail market.
 
Been following this one and have wanted to add to the discussion with out sound self promoting being a vendor myself. Not sure if thats even possible but ill try to give it a whirl. I have no intention of any hostilities towards any other vendor or hobbyist in any way:angel:. These are simply my thoughts


I have had the conversation with many customers and they can all attest to my own passion on the subject. Pest control is something i take very seriously. I can completely understand ronnies point of view as someone who has also had and lost a thriving sps tank to flatworms years ago. If you have not had them then you really just don't fully understand of the scope of the damage that they can cause. Even if your tank manages to seem ok, in the long run its just completely deflating as a hobbyist. The delight you once had looking at your acros is replaced by disappointment and paranoia.

AEFWs are by far the most underestimated and most damage causing pest out there. My heart still flutters a little when I see one fly off a new wild piece during inspection. the fact is that these things are one of the absolute worst aspects of the hobby. Untill some millionaire to be invents an in tank treatment we are stuck with them.

As a vendor I get asked very often by customers if they should dip there order. My answer is always the same and goes something like this.

"while I struggle to exhaust every effort and take an extremely aggressive approach to pest control in my own system I still could never suggest that someone not at least dip any new arrival with out exception. Full QT would be better" Anyone who has asked me this can attest to the following lecture they got from me about my obsessive methods on how i manage to do it and offers of how and what my exact methods are in detail. Granted i am a small timer vendor and do not have even remotely the volume of in and out type of sales as the larger guys but my operation is as such that if I contracted them in any of my systems it would be devastating. So its in my own extreme best interest as a business owner to keep them out at all costs. My inventory is comprised mostly of mothers grown from frags and are not easily replaced. its as simple as that. I DO NOT want them in my system. My efforts do not translate to higher costs. it's just what i need do to keep my mothers healthy long term.

Having said that, I can't say that I have ever had an order of wild pieces come in without at least one worm tucked somewhere and trust me if they are on them I WILL FIND THEM. I honestly can't see how any other vendor that is moving more could ever rid there system of them. They have them now and that is that. I would be even more suspicious of larger places that have been around longer. All it takes is one egg and the system is contaminated. To believe that any wholesaler is selling pest free sps is not realistic or even practical in any way. I would even go as far as to say impossible on that scale.


I, just like any hobbyist simply assume that any acro i buy has them and treat them as such. So its a fine line for sure. If you want to blame anything blame yourself or the explicative worm! In the end its the hobbyist or vendor(whoever is buying the corals) responsibility to keep them out of their own systems but the more aware people are of how to treat and effective QT methods, the less of a problem they will be with any luck.


FWs are just one of those things that you don't realize are as horrible as they are until you have them. I can feel it in the tone of some of the posters in this thread who have clearly been through it. Its a terrible experience and has a way of leaving scars. With any luck we will have a proven treatment eventually and discussions like this will be a thing of blissful nostalgia.

Excellent post and thanks for sharing your thoughts. : bigthumb:
 

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