Why are some people anti-waterchanges?

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Not sure which toxins would be in the water aside from corals maybe fighting, but this too can be neutralized to some extent.

How do you know that?

 

[FishTruck]

To the original question.

Sometimes, water changes are not the most economic solution to maintaining or achieving desired reef chemistry.

Sometimes, a reefer just digs in to challenge dogma and might take and "anti" stance. This is just good fun and a learning opportunity - but boy do some people get hot if their own methodologies are challenged!

 

[Reefer Matt Verified Media Partner]

Checkout how much water Andrew Sandler at Polo Reef changes.
*Spoiler alert, 1000 gallons per week minimum.

Our Aquariums

Time in Operation and tank sizes • System established: June 2019 • Display tank: Custom-built with 4-inch (10-cm) thick acrylic viewing panels and fiberglass bottom and rear wall 17,000 gallons (64,400 liters) 16x15x9 feet (488x457x274 cm) • Sumps: Polypropylene 2,500 gallons (9,500 L) •...

www.poloreef.com

 

[StripeCore]

With Moonshiners, Triton, etc. the goal is a self-sufficient system. But how can that be when there are immeasurable DOCs, toxins, etc. that are not being removed and left to build-up overtime? Why do we ignore common sense in hopes of avoiding waterchanges?

Why is it with FW hobbyists they are more religious about their waterchanges, while SW [some not all] hobbyists are looking for ways to avoid them?

Isn't it cheaper and better overall to do waterchanges and play it safe rather than risk stunting, algae problems, coral die offs, etc.?


This isn't meant to offend, just to open a discussion on this issue as it is concerning.

oh well

 

[FishTruck]

Checkout how much water Andrew Sandler at Polo Reef changes.
*Spoiler alert, 1000 gallons per week minimum.

Our Aquariums

Time in Operation and tank sizes • System established: June 2019 • Display tank: Custom-built with 4-inch (10-cm) thick acrylic viewing panels and fiberglass bottom and rear wall 17,000 gallons (64,400 liters) 16x15x9 feet (488x457x274 cm) • Sumps: Polypropylene 2,500 gallons (9,500 L) •...

www.poloreef.com

Right! For really big tanks - it seems there are two camps. Massive water changes - or - minimum water changes, and on the fringe - no water changes. Just the work involved in hauling salt into the house becomes something to consider at a certain scale.

 

[Icryhard]

How do you know that?

Well for starters we can use activated carbon... and there is a company out here which makes pads that filter toxins. I don't know what they use for the pads etc. however. That's how I know (and no, I am not talking about NO3 removing pads).

 

[Mangimi]

I'm not anti water change, I'm just too lazy to do them frequently

 

[shwareefer]

My corals look happy after a water change.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Well for starters we can use activated carbon... and there is a company out here which makes pads that filter toxins. I don't know what they use for the pads etc. however. That's how I know (and no, I am not talking about NO3 removing pads).

OK, but you do not know that they bind all toxins, or even any toxins present in a reef tank.

They might, or they might not.

 

[X-37B]

After 30+ I now do 10% a month. I do it to remove anything we cant test for. I have gone 18+ months with no ill effects.

After 18 months I did 10% for no reason. The tank just looked better from my perspective as their is no real way to test for what it may remove.

 

[Sleepingtiger]

the process to water change is time consuming and a pita. RODI, salt, mixing, storage, heating, water pumps. Of course there is always a water spill, forgetting to turn off the rodi and rodi water everywhere.

My biggest problem would be disposal of the saltwater. I have septic tank and not sure how dumping hundreds of lbs over time in my backyard is a good idea.

 

[ForrestGump]

The oceans have been running for millions of years without a water change.

 

[7of9]

For me, IF I could avoid water changes, I think that would be great. It's not that I'm "lazy" but water changes do introduce a level of instability. If something is going to go wrong for me, it usually will go wrong as a result of a WC.

Of course, I'm saying this as I prepare for a 10% WC myself.

I've seen some really fantastic looking tanks that use methods to have few or no WC's, so there must be something to it.

 

[X-37B]

A 10% WC will change stability, how?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The oceans have been running for millions of years without a water change.

Have they? Folks often state this, but it is untrue in in at least two different ways.

1. Open water is constantly flowing toward and over and through reefs. That is as much a water change on a natural reef as one a reefkeeper does in an aquarium.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/24862071

"However, currents flowing over coralreef flats deliver not just nutrients but also organic carbon originating from the fore reef and offshore as particles of phytoplankton, zooplankton, microbes, and detritus and as dissolved carbohydrates, lipids, and proteins. W"

2. Even in the ocean as a whole, water and ions are constantly being added and removed by many different processes. Add these all together and they effective are doing water changes. Many ions in the ocean have half lives shorter than the time you mention, buy being added and removed constantly. Calcium, for example, has an average residence time in the whole ocean of less than a million years.

 

[rtparty]

I actually have seen them. Right here on R2R. People changing too much water and stripping it all from nutrients for example. You say you did 100% water changes, that’s good for you.

I know people who haven’t done water changes and would dose trace and other elements because it was cheaper overall. Not sure which toxins would be in the water aside from corals maybe fighting, but this too can be neutralized to some extent. I myself do a 2% water change for example every 5 days. Everything works just fine.

So their import/export is broken? It isn't the water change causing the issue. They are either not importing enough or are exporting way too much. Even weekly water changes at 25% still leaves 75% of the nutrients there.

Can't blame the water change if someone is running 15 filters stripping the water of everything. That is poor setup and understanding

 

[Subsea]

Well for starters we can use activated carbon... and there is a company out here which makes pads that filter toxins. I don't know what they use for the pads etc. however. That's how I know (and no, I am not talking about NO3 removing pads

DOC & DIC comes in many flavors (toxins included). On the reef, recycling is the name of the game. One organisms waste is another’s food.

While activated carbon removes 4 fold more DOC than protein skimmers on carbon dosing protocol. Cryptic sponges remove 5 fold more types of DOC than the best granulated activated carbon.

After 50 years of Reefing, I stopped chasing what the mob said was the only way to operate a reef. Instead of imagining toxins with no names and how to remove so said toxin, I choose to find a way to recycle elements into the microbial food web. Yes, I recycle DOC & POC into the microbial food web using cryptic sponges.

 

[Reefkeepers Archive]

With Moonshiners, Triton, etc. the goal is a self-sufficient system. But how can that be when there are immeasurable DOCs, toxins, etc. that are not being removed and left to build-up overtime? Why do we ignore common sense in hopes of avoiding waterchanges?

Why is it with FW hobbyists they are more religious about their waterchanges, while SW [some not all] hobbyists are looking for ways to avoid them?

Isn't it cheaper and better overall to do waterchanges and play it safe rather than risk stunting, algae problems, coral die offs, etc.?


This isn't meant to offend, just to open a discussion on this issue as it is concerning.

Simple, mixing saltwater is difficult/time consuming and we are lazy. Unfortunately I (probably) can't do a no water change system on my tank as I'm planning on heavily stocking it, though things like a refeugium and carbon remove those toxins

 

[Troylee]

I’ll say this much… anyone who doubts a water change should try a 100% water change and observe their corals the next couple days! I’ve done this a few times with upgrades even my current display… I’ve never seen my lps so fluffy or the crazy pe my sticks showed that first week again.. I’ve slacked big time due to weather and and laziness but I’m gearing up for a large one here real soon.. the results speak for them selves.. smaller 10-30% help but the corals don’t respond like all new water.

 

[Subsea]

Yes protein skimmers remove specific bacteria:

Bacterial Counts in Reef Aquarium Water: Baseline Values and Modulation by Carbon Dosing, Protein Skimming, and Granular Activated Carbon Filtration

Bacterial Counts in Reef Aquarium Water: Baseline Values and Modulation by Carbon Dosing, Protein Skimming, and Granular Activated Carbon Filtration - What are the bacteria populations in the water column of reef tanks, and how does that value compare with bacterial counts in authentic reef...

reefs.com

What are the bacteria populations in the water column of reef tanks, and how does that value compare with bacterial counts in authentic reef water? Does carbon dosing indeed increase water column bacteria populations (i.e., is growth carbon limited)? Does mechanical filtration (protein skimming...

Our earlier research on the topic of carbon nutrient levels in marine aquaria (Feldman, 2008; Feldman, 2009; Feldman, 2010) has provided experimental documentation for four conclusions that impact on TOC management in our reef tanks:

1. Reef aquaria utilizing active filtration (GAC, skimming) maintain equilibrium TOC levels within the range found on healthy tropical reefs.
2. Protein skimming (i.e., bubbles) is not very effective at removing TOC from aquarium water, depleting typical reef tank water of only ~ 20 – 35% of the post-feeding TOC present.
3. GAC filtration is quite effective at stripping reef tank water of its TOC load, removing 60 – 85% of the TOC present.
4. And, quite intriguingly, the natural biological filtration, which starts with bacteria and other microbes, is remarkable in its capacity to remediate reef tank water of TOC, easily removing 50% or more of the post-feeding TOC increase in tank water.

Conclusions (2) and (3) describe the consequences of mechanical filtration on TOC levels, but the 4th conclusion emphasizes the importance of the “hidden” part of the remediation equation, bacterial predation, for gaining an understanding of the dynamics of carbon commerce in our aquaria. In fact, this observation, coupled with the advent of Carbon Dosing strategies for nutrient export, led to a new series of questions regarding the perhaps pivotal role of bacteria, or at least skimmable water column bacteria, in successful reef aquarium husbandry.

Total Organic Carbon - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

POC is usually efficiently removed through mechanical filtration and DOC is the fraction of the TOC that passes through a filter of a stipulated pore size of 0.45 µm. Two major components of DOC are humic and fulvic acids, which can color the water and are often discouraged in the aquarium setting.