Algae issues? Why dont more people use algae scrubbers?

[VintageReefer]

@brandon429 looking back I would have been a good candidate for a rip clean and I believe that would have been successful but 1) I didn’t even hear of the term then and 2) it would have been a ton of work on a 75g tank with 90+ lbs of sand to wash, and I simply don’t have the time or energy these days. If it was my 15g nano. Sure. My 75. Probably not

 

[jason2459]

You're gonna make me cry. I miss that setup so much!

That was awesome! And I could watch that ball tumble for hours. Relaxing.

 

[Garf]

Brandon I respect all that you have done over the many years and the advancements you’ve made for the community with h2o2, and rip cleans.

I will offer this before and after and all I did was fix my scrubber which went offline due to a failed air pump.

I did zero water changes, added no cuc, I literally did nothing but replace the scrubber air pump. It took about 1 month for the algae to die off and 1 more month where random patches would appear then die off, and after that I have had no algae return and I started adding corals

I fully believe the scrubber naturally resolved my issues and have kept them from returning. I took my skimmer offline a year ago, and have not done any nutrient export aside from harvesting scrubber algae. I haven’t done a a water change in approximately 2.5 years. I don’t use gfo or any reactors, nor do I use algae products / chemicals

The rock is established and has been in use for 8-10 years and the sand for at least 8 years.

You ever tried drying the scrubber algae (3 hrs at 60C seems to be standard). Then convert it to say a “Sheet of Nori equivalent units”. Dried mine at 110C for three hours (Not standard) and it was 4 or 5% dry compared to wet weight, which is surprisingly little. Gross wet weight per 10 days at around 500 grammes standard, nearly 800 grammes with added CO2.

 

[brandon429]

75s are usually too big for rip cleans/ impractical unless they’re having to move homes etc agreed we need to investigate alternate care methods for big tanks

it’s why I like to try and drive work in live time help threads in the nuisance algae forum, thats where reef evolution happens. I know Floyd Turbo has threads of tank turnarounds with ats systems for sure, we just need more pattern work done where the requests are to either hone or phase out the method


I honestly believe ats are a unique and beneficial zone, something different than the usual all-rocks setup / but they risk fragmented spreading of the ats materials/plants across the setup as well and these are the fine tuning controls we get to see when people take on live time work threads.

 

[VintageReefer]

You ever tried drying the scrubber algae (3 hrs at 60C seems to be standard). Then convert it to say a “Sheet of Nori equivalent units”. Dried mine at 110C for three hours (Not standard) and it was 4 or 5% dry compared to wet weight, which is surprisingly little.

Why would I do that? I’m not talking about weight or volume or anything related.

I remove the algae that’s grown and toss it. Algae and live rock are my tanks filtration. I feed more I get faster algae growth.

 

[Garf]

do those of you using ATS know what species of algae you have growing there in your system

No, not really. I’m convinced folks who grow yellow slime screens are actually farming chrysophytes and those that are brown slime are dinos, but of course nobody would admit that, or even investigate for that matter.

Why would I do that? I’m not talking about weight or volume or anything related.

I remove the algae that’s grown and toss it. Algae and live rock are my tanks filtration. I feed more I get faster algae growth.

just trying to get a handle on how many nutrients you think you are chucking, that’s all.

 

[jason2459]

No, not really. I’m convinced folks who grow yellow slime screens are actually farming chrysophytes and those that are brown slime are dinos, but of course nobody would admit that, or even investigate for that matter.

Oh I've definitely seen chrysophyte like algae. Also, plenty of dinos. Also, diatoms that I think are really pretty looking. Also, etc.

Typically when I see a browned/yellow screen it's due to to much light.

Like this


After turning down the light intensity this was one week later

 

[VintageReefer]

Enough to keep my display algae free for 2 years despite target feeding and broadcast feeding my tank 5x a week

Enough for my tank to consistently measure .02-.05 phosphates and 0-2 nitrates any time I ever checked in 2 years of this current iteration of coral choice

Enough to go from .34 phosphate (spilled reef roids) to .02 phosphates in 6 days with no involvement from me needed

I don’t think evaporated weight is a practical measurement. Someone could expel cups of skimmate and if I said pour it on a baking sheet and bake it and when it’s dry let’s see what it weighs…I don’t think that’s useful in any way.

Or someone doing a water change to reduce nutrients. They wouldn’t evaporate the water and weigh the salt residue


For reference I harvest this every 10-14 days

 

[ScubaSkeets]

I have. Twice. Though I am not really anti scrubber (and I think must aren’t), but you really don’t care right?

I ignored you the first time when you said something like that, but i must have hurt your feelings so I'll respond.
Am I supposed to care whether someone takes what I PERCEIVE as a success in MY OWN individual tank, and uses "my" advice, or not? Sure...I want all of us to have a successful tank, regardless of how its done, so i care in that regards. However, Do you want me to sleep if someone doesn't do it my way??

 

[jason2459]

or even investigate for that matter.

I've posted quite a bit of what I've found. I haven't in quite some time as gather, editing, posting was just something I found took up to much time and I needed a break. I should again. I still look under the microscope at least once a week.

Our tank's biology up close

And this is what I just got done exploring. Pics and maybe vids tomorrow. Or I guess later today. Stringy bacteria in sump The smear.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[jda]

For any of you that think that the ATS is the only reason why your display is algae free, put a sheet out of your ATS in your display and watch what happens. I would scrape it down first so that the filaments do not float around the tank and start growing in the branches of your corals.

Enough to go from .34 phosphate (spilled reef roids) to .02 phosphates in 6 days with no involvement from me needed

That happened because the tank broke down the roids and the po4 from the water got bound to rock and sand, like it does. That would have happened even if you had no algae source. The ATS did not do this.

Each tank is different, of course, but in my few decades of growing and exporting macro, everything except the largest refuge (of any type) are better at maintaining than lowering po4. This is a good thing, IMO. If they were good at lowering, they would not stop until you had none detectable. I am talking export of 5 gallon buckets of hair, puffy turf, bryopsis (good fuge algae, actually, but needs introduced), chaeto, etc.

Harvesting macro is a huge death event. I used to take time and pick out mini brittle stars and other other creatures, but you can never get them all. I still feel bad, though. For a few years, I had a huge mysid colony in my 125g refuge with untold losses from them living in the algae.

 

[mizimmer90]

You ever tried drying the scrubber algae (3 hrs at 60C seems to be standard). Then convert it to say a “Sheet of Nori equivalent units”. Dried mine at 110C for three hours (Not standard) and it was 4 or 5% dry compared to wet weight, which is surprisingly little. Gross wet weight per 10 days at around 500 grammes standard, nearly 800 grammes with added CO2.

I assumed this was so you could feed the scrubber algae to fish haha

 

[jason2459]

Harvesting macro is a huge death event. I used to take time and pick out mini brittle stars and other other creatures, but you can never get them all. I still feel bad, though. For a few years, I had a huge mysid colony in my 125g refuge with untold losses from them living in the algae.

It really is, I try and dip my screen a few times to get some of that off. But to be honest my skimmer's a death trap too. Looking at what's in the skimmate was all the same sorts of stuff. Exporting is exporting indiscriminately. I guess my automatic water change maybe less so.

 

[Seansea]

#1 advice i would give anyone starting a saltwater tank whether fish only or reef tank is get an algae scrubber. Hair algae is disheartening and one of the mains reasons someone will give up and sell all there stuff off. Start a scrubber from day one and never fight the algae nightmare. I started this tank with a clearwarer cw-50 from day one and Never had an algae outbreak and that was with 20lbs live rock and 50 lbs of dead rock. So plenty of bare spots for algae to get hold of. The algae spores will always prefer the perfect conditions of the scrubber over the display. Plus the ph bump alone is really nice.

But i also use a skimmer. Like randy said a skimmer can remove other things than just organics that a scrubber cant. Put your hands in tank with soap on em or kid dumps something stupid in there and skimmer will pull that junk out. They both work great and do diffrent things.

 

[VintageReefer]

the only reason my tank was able to break it down is because it is clean enough and healthy enough to do so thanks to the scrubber. My rock used to be bound up with phosphates and the scrubber fixed it.

How many people out there struggle with high phosphates and they struggle to reduce. They can’t. Because their rock and sand is already phosphate bound and can’t absorb any more. They use additives like gfo to absorb excess phosphate and then when it’s at capacity they replace it and do it over and over forever.

Based on your statement someone could come here complaining they have .5 phosphates and your advice would be just wait a week and your rock and sand will absorb it?

How many people have complained of algae outbreaks or other outbreaks of nuisance films from reef roids? I had zero impact to my system.

I don’t even understand how anyone can say this doesn’t work for me. I have a sump, scrubber, and that’s it. I don’t change water. So, with 4 fish I feed 7x a week (and I’ve had 6 fish using same setup) and all these corals I’m feeding 5x a week, plus adding amino acids 3-5x a week…why doesn’t my display grow algae? Where are the nutrients and waste going? How are my corals thriving? How are my numbers consistent and stable and actually good?

 

[jda]

People are only saying that how you are representing or describing the effect is somewhat accurate, not that it does not work.

Yes, anybody with rock and sand that added a influx of po4 in one day will watch that level decrease in a few days - everybody. What you asked in your third sentence is something different than you reef roid accident - I do not know if it is intentional, or not.

 

[Subsea]

People are only saying that how you are representing or describing the effect is somewhat accurate, not that it does not work.

Yes, anybody with rock and sand that added an influx of po4 in one day will watch that level decrease in a few days - everybody. What you asked in your third sentence is something different than you reef roid accident - I do not know if it is intentional, or not.

Kudoes to this post.

@VintageReefer
When thread title reads, why don’t more people use ATS, I find your fixation on why you use it, to not be consistent with that theme.

Do you or the OP really want to know why others don’t use ATS?
Just curious,
Patrick

 

[Thales]

Okay, heres something actionable: use a light for your ATS/refugium that is optimized for algae.

Not sure why this is controversial but here we are lol

That isn't controversial, but I never said anything bout this. However, you still haven't answered the questions that I asked in post 127.

I don't understand why you are taking this like a fight with me. You made a specific claim and I want to understand it.

 

[jason2459]

Do you or the OP really want to know why others don’t use ATS?

lol, like I could start a thread asking why more people don't use a reverse UGF. It's amazing and keeps my tank healthy, why doesn't everyone use one! Am i right or am I right @Paul B !

 

[VintageReefer]

Kudoes to this post.

@VintageReefer
When thread title reads, why don’t more people use ATS, I find your fixation on why you use it, to not be consistent with that theme.

Do you or the OP really want to know why others don’t use ATS?
Just curious,
Patrick

I don’t think I should be the only one called out for not adhering to the thread title. This became a discussion about how they work, why they work/don’t work etc. I have respectfully talked to those whose opinions I value and asked for their insight, and offered my own examples and experiences.

tell you all what. If you feel I have not added value to this thread or if I somehow have made it go off topic, I apologize and will remove myself from it going forward