Booger Sized Frags: What are your thoughts?

[Me z]

I dont mind paying top dollar for frags for a few reasons. First I know they are aquacultured and I am not pulling stuff off the reef. Second there tends to be alot of info on named corals as far as placement, params, feeding habits, etc... where wild stuff you are left on your own. Aquacultured corals have a proven track record in a captive environment. Finally resale/trade value is always better if your successfull. Everyone wants a deal when they have to shell out the money, but everyone wants top dollar when they try to make a return on their investment. I think most are upset because they really like the benifits of named corals and the colors they just dont want to be the one taking the risk spending the money to get them. I have 0 wild corals in my system every coral is a captive grown named specimen. I like it that way and I dont mind paying the extra money for peace of mind, information, and value stability when I got to make a trade or sell frags. If you dont like captive grown corals and dont want to pay for it thats fine, but if your happy with not having them why are you complaining? Just my .02!

 

[mnat]

I dont mind paying top dollar for frags for a few reasons. First I know they are aquacultured and I am not pulling stuff off the reef. Second there tends to be alot of info on named corals as far as placement, params, feeding habits, etc... where wild stuff you are left on your own. Aquacultured corals have a proven track record in a captive environment. Finally resale/trade value is always better if your successfull. Everyone wants a deal when they have to shell out the money, but everyone wants top dollar when they try to make a return on their investment. I think most are upset because they really like the benifits of named corals and the colors they just dont want to be the one taking the risk spending the money to get them. I have 0 wild corals in my system every coral is a captive grown named specimen. I like it that way and I dont mind paying the extra money for peace of mind, information, and value stability when I got to make a trade or sell frags. If you dont like captive grown corals and dont want to pay for it thats fine, but if your happy with not having them why are you complaining? Just my .02!

Not all named pieces are captive grown or aquacultured. Plenty of vendors chop wild caught pieces. If it is aquacultured you should not be receiving boogers as there should be plenty of it.

 

[Rikerbear]

I personally cringe when I see someone make an instant reef out of colonies. While I do think excessive markup does get out of control in this hobby, I still think the best part is watching them grow.

I think there is a difference in watching your frags grow in and waiting years and years and still having to wait some more. But I get what you're saying, I am enjoying watching for new polyps, new heads, etc

 

[sucker_fish]

I can remember the days when a frag was about 2 inches with multiple branches or eyes or mouths, and sold for at most 40 bucks. Then it seems the acan craze hit, ppl were paying 300 for a small colony, then a couple years later the chalices really got hot and the price skyrocketed on them, those booger sizefrags came from accidental fragging and usually got given away, now they are bringing premium prices and its like playing the lottery whether or not they make it past the first week. So yeah i hate the booger sized frags.

 

[alberthiel]

I try to stay away from booger frags but like others have stated the photo's will fool you sometimes .
This was sold to me as a ATL Strawberry Fields Acro . The seller advised it was small but would be at least 1/2 inch .
I didn't pay $$$$ like some chalice frags I have seen . It has started to base now but I did have to change plugs . (algae plug) .
It will take a while to grow out( i am okay with it ) but as you can see it does not even come close to 1/2 inch .
Yep it's a booger frag ..

Sure hope you did not pay a great deal for that one. ...

 

[alberthiel]

Not all named pieces are captive grown or aquacultured. Plenty of vendors chop wild caught pieces. If it is aquacultured you should not be receiving boogers as there should be plenty of it.

The problem with named pieces is a tough one indeed. How can one be sure they are truly from a mother colony by that grower. There is none. All you can do is buy from a reputable source as they are not likely to engage in adding Tyree or Fox or some other name to the frag's one.

 

[alberthiel]

I think there is a difference in watching your frags grow in and waiting years and years and still having to wait some more. But I get what you're saying, I am enjoying watching for new polyps, new heads, etc

Indeed who wants to wait that long or even half that long? As long as Hobbyists keep paying for tiny tiny frags some will continue to sell them ... and they will even get smaller if that is possible

 

[gooch Verified Sponsor]

We are still in the infancy of coral propagation. In time like everything the prices will level out and the frags will get bigger. Eventually very little coral will be imported into the country and captive raised coral and fish will be the norm. Wild coral will be ten times the price due to sheer lack of volume and the only ones that will be able to afford them are going to be the super rich or those with connections. I do see a day where coral prices come back to earth. It could be sooner than later.

 

[coldhybrid]

I've been a victim of the small frag deal again last week i place and order the frags shown appeared to be about 1 inch in size which is fine. When i got them they were more like tips of sps not frags. It was like someone took and cut the tips off the sps and put them on frag plugs. They were about 1/4 inch tall i spent almost $200 on frags and the biggest one i got was 1/2in. Dont get me wrong small frags are ok as long as they are not under 1 inch and not extremely over priced.

 

[alberthiel]

We are still in the infancy of coral propagation. In time like everything the prices will level out and the frags will get bigger. Eventually very little coral will be imported into the country and captive raised coral and fish will be the norm. Wild coral will be ten times the price due to sheer lack of volume and the only ones that will be able to afford them are going to be the super rich or those with connections. I do see a day where coral prices come back to earth. It could be sooner than later.

Well of the current Bill that is on the Congress' table goes through prices will go up for sure ... I posted a link to the Bill's details earlier ... That Black List could be so extensive that nothing is allowed anymore that is not native to the US and what is really, it sounds like even trading or selling what is here already that is not US native will be prohibited as well if the Bill passes ... and that will make prices go UP rather than down, if in fact sales can still be made. Scary !

 

[RalphsReef]

Can you provide more info on the bill you mentioned? I don't know about anywhere else in the states, but if I decided to abandon a coral in the waters along the east coast of Florida, I could pretty much guarantee it would not survive. Funny how the government thinks it can protect us from everything. Heck, if for nothing else, it would at least look nice if the waters off Florida's east coast had a nice reef growing there. Call me crazy, I guess.

 

[Aquaph8]

That plague of lion fish isn't convincing anyone either though.

 

[alberthiel]

Can you provide more info on the bill you mentioned? I don't know about anywhere else in the states, but if I decided to abandon a coral in the waters along the east coast of Florida, I could pretty much guarantee it would not survive. Funny how the government thinks it can protect us from everything. Heck, if for nothing else, it would at least look nice if the waters off Florida's east coast had a nice reef growing there. Call me crazy, I guess.

Here is the Link ... and read carefully how the Black List is defined ...

Tough New Wildlife Import Regulations Proposed for US

Albert

 

[RalphsReef]

Leave it to Washington to screw things up even more. Did Louise Slaughter have a reef tank and experience an AEFW outbreak or something? Being local to Bill Nelson in Florida, I can tell you he is nothing to write home about. He is usually looking for other ways to fritter taxpayers money, though. I will have to send him an email when he makes his move. I am sure I will get a "canned answer" telling me how important my thoughts are and how much he will consider them. Politicians....

 

[SeymourDuncan]

Booger sized frags: fling them like one? Or stick it to a rock? I personally have boogers larger than some of the frags I have seen, and could quite possibly use one as a frag plug for these tiny specimens of which we all despise.

The question of value is this: are you a hobbyist? To make it simple i will categorize the hobbyist into 2 divisions.
1) The Grower: a hobbyist who desires small frags to begin so that they may see the corals grow from nothing. These people are generally long term thinkers. The benefit of doing this is that a tiny coral has much less "original tissue" than a large version. All the new tissue will e accustomed to your water as it grows rather than having the issue of a large coral not taking as well and polluting your waters.
2)The Shower: they want it big and full. Frag plugs are out of the question. They are generally people who either can afford to buy 1000s worth of corals regularly or people who are just impatient or don't appreciate the process as much as the results. As long as they keep good water there is nothing wrong with that at all. The important part is the animals are healthy. The downside though is if you buy a 6 trillion dollar 30lb chalice coral that doesn't get acclimated right or comes with parasites or something you really have no option but to fake your own death and dip out of the country!

Now the value of things seems to all be a matter of perception.
The grower. "700 per head!! The potential value this holds will be worth it some day! Yes I will invest!"
The shower. "700 for your whole tank full of huge corals? Thanks Craig's list, now I don't have to pick my nose to glue that frag I saw online!"

I fall into both categories. It really had to be a good deal though for large stuff. I love making them grow from tiny frags.
When I can I will buy singles and let them grow from that and take the original head (if I can) and take it back to where I got it so they can "rent" it to another grower.

 

[RalphsReef]

I sell frags from time to time to help support my addiction to coral. I prefer not to sell boogers, but I will if someone asks for one. I have had a lot of fellow reefers buy larger mini colonies, but once in a while, someone will ask for a deal on a bunch of small or booger sized frags. On a side note, when I make frags every little piece gets mounted. Even the tiniest little sliver. I waste nothing, and they usually grow to be nice little mini colonies before they sell.

 

[coldhybrid]

That Bill scares me it could really affect this hobby dramatically in the long run. Also its gonna create a new problem if we think prices are bad now wait til that gets close to voted in. There will be a massive buy out and price jump off everything before you can't get it. Kinda like when Hostess went under. People paid 100's for a box of twinkies lol. Just think what itd be like Ricordea's being $100+ and acros being almost unobtainable by your casual reefers. As far as the small frags small frags are fine as long as they are more than 1in imo anything less than that is crazy. I like watching corals grow from tiny pieces but not that small. I even take progression shots of them as they grow so i can compare them and document what i did when they were growing good etc. I guess im a nerd on that aspect ive got a saltwater log where i record everything i put in take out and change and my daily params. I guess you could call it OCD lol

 

[alberthiel]

That Bill scares me it could really affect this hobby dramatically in the long run. Also its gonna create a new problem if we think prices are bad now wait til that gets close to voted in. There will be a massive buy out and price jump off everything before you can't get it. Kinda like when Hostess went under. People paid 100's for a box of twinkies lol. Just think what itd be like Ricordea's being $100+ and acros being almost unobtainable by your casual reefers. As far as the small frags small frags are fine as long as they are more than 1in imo anything less than that is crazy. I like watching corals grow from tiny pieces but not that small. I even take progression shots of them as they grow so i can compare them and document what i did when they were growing good etc. I guess im a nerd on that aspect ive got a saltwater log where i record everything i put in take out and change and my daily params. I guess you could call it OCD lol

This is not the first time a bill like that has come up but this one could be voted in without anyone trying to stop the vote on it as I have not seen any Trade Organizations posting opposition to it or setting up a site where anyone can post their opinion and try to stop it from being passed, and yes if this one passes it will be a massive problem for the Hobby especially price wise but also because apparently it would include all the corals and fish that are on that Black List from being traded and sold even if they are already in this country. Basically you would not be able to trade or sell a frag and who knows what it would do to Store inventories ... this is all so unclear that one wonders why no serious opposition has started yet ... Let's hope it does NOT pass ...

 

[PaulKreider]

I got cheated on a few frags, they were close up pictures, when they arrived some of the zoas were just babys barely old enough to open... and another chalice came half dead which wasnt shown in the WYSISYG picture... Its hit or miss.

 

[coldhybrid]

Yup i know albert thats what i fear most that no one is saying anything to stop it at all. Its pretty scary to think that it very well could pass and there goes this wonderful hobby. Which really sucks because young kids and reef newbies learn so much about it and our oceans at the same time. I remember back in the day most people that had reef aquariums were either really rich or got their systems off some one that was getting out of the hobby. Now days if you look its pretty mainstream like freshwater fish was. It would be seriously depressing if they banned everything coming in etc. When it comes to wild caught corals and fish i think there should be a limitation put on those due to the fact of endangered species and the reefs dying out. At the same time by all means get a sample of every coral and try to get them captive grown so we won't deplete the reefs fully. We already do enough damage to it already from our daily lives. Sorry to get off topic of the original post but this is a very real issue that could take place real soon.