Help with Water Quality (Rapid Fish Death)

[InTentsReef]

I agree, but everything suggested to you that may be the cause you have just passed off like you know the answer, I find reef2reef is a great community for suggestions not answers but it's down to the individual to research and maintain/ take appropriate course of action as each aquriam is different.... It just pains me when a post about fish dying when the op does not do proper research before introducing and than l ask questions after/ later...
Good luck with your aquarium

Where did I fail to do proper research? Believe me, I’m not happy the fish died either, but no one starting new tank suspects there is a metal or toxin their RO unit isn’t pulling out. I think you are making accusations that I’m being irresponsible, but I think that accusation is irresponsible.

I appreciate everyone who is throwing out suggestions trying to help.

 

[ying yang]

Hello and welcome to the UK,hope all is well for you here,nice weather at moment but rain be here soon ha ha.

Nothing to add apart from I think it's some kind of toxin in your tank,whether its candles/air freshner sprayed near tank or even neighbours putting down strong weed killer and you got windows open as its quite hot at moment and you know nature wants equilibrium so if no toxin in tank and some in air around tank ,it will go in tank water etc,i know you mentioned no smellies/candles near tank,or even chloramines in water instead off chlorine and you mentioned burning through alot of di resin,if test for chloramines same as chlorine idk,how you find out what if it is idk but hope you get to bottom off it and can start enjoying your tank again.

Good luck

 

[JumboShrimp]

Just spitballing wild ideas, here:

A 20 gallon tank… $20 worth of distilled water from the grocery store and call it a day?

 

[undermind]

PS - he is actually a “she” reefer. I know we are rare breeds!

Ahhh! Sorry!

But amazingly, I actually went to change that part before posting but quickly glanced at your tiny profile pic thumbnail and left it as is. Now that I look closely, I see I screwed that up. Sorry about that.

 

[Lasse]

Not trying to not accept any feedback — but I am pushing back on things that aren’t likely culprits (salinity). Sending off the ICP is part of validating the testing I’m doing at home with a more accurate kit. I’m not proposing adding livestock until I know what the problem might be, and looking for help for ideas that I might not have thought of / someone with more expertise. Asking questions and having a dialogue is certainly a reasonable step before tearing down the tank.

For me - it looks as it is something toxic in your water/tank. The question is what.

I looked up the water quality report from my source water. This is pre-treatment from RODI.

I suppose this is before your RODI. Lead and copper is high. But not as high to kill fish in a hour or two. I suppose you have a carbon filter cause some chloramines can slip by a reverse osmosis membrane. I would wait for the ICP result. Everything that I and other writes here can´t be anything else but pure speculations. However - IMO - no of the proposed factors in this thread can have caused your problems. To solve this - outside the box thinking is - IMO - necessary. You said that corals died in your water too. I would take a clean bucket and fill it with newly mixed saltwater - a small circ. pump and place some frags in this. You will get an answer if the toxin is in your water already from the beginning or if it comes from your tank. Ying Yang has some ideas to think of.

Another - out of the box thinking - seldom happens - but it has happen - is if you have used new containers for your RO water. Sometimes - it can be "processing" chemicals left in new plastic buckets. They need to be cleaned with a lot of water

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Thor2j]

As everyone has said 100% some toxin, not salinity or disease.

 

[InTentsReef]

A 20 gallon tank… $20 worth of distilled water from the grocery store and call it a day?

I have considered that - but if it’s a metal or other toxin I’d be worried it’s also now in the rocks and sand too?

re: toxins - as mentioned before I have ROX carbon in the rear chamber and have since I started the tank. If it was a spray or whatever, wouldn’t the carbon be pulling that out? Likewise- does carbon have any effect on heavy metals?

 

[InTentsReef]

Ahhh! Sorry!

But amazingly, I actually went to change that part before posting but quickly glanced at your tiny profile pic thumbnail and left it as is. Now that I look closely, I see I screwed that up. Sorry about that.

All good. Not offended at all. That pic is a tough one too!

 

[InTentsReef]

For me - it looks as it is something toxic in your water/tank. The question is what.


I suppose this is before your RODI. Lead and copper is high. But not as high to kill fish in a hour or two. I suppose you have a carbon filter cause some chloramines can slip by a reverse osmosis membrane. I would wait for the ICP result. Everything that I and other writes here can´t be anything else but pure speculations. However - IMO - no of the proposed factors in this thread can have caused your problems. To solve this - outside the box thinking is - IMO - necessary. You said that corals died in your water too. I would take a clean bucket and fill it with newly mixed saltwater - a small circ. pump and place some frags in this. You will get an answer if the toxin is in your water already from the beginning or if it comes from your tank. Ying Yang has some ideas to think of.

Another - out of the box thinking - seldom happens - but it has happen - is if you have used new containers for your RO water. Sometimes - it can be "processing" chemicals left in new plastic buckets. They need to be cleaned with a lot of water

Sincerely Lasse

Containers aren’t new for the RO but the filters themselves are. I didn’t dispose of the first few gallons (rookie mistake) after swapping them. Is that even a remote possibility though? At this point between water changes and the ATO I’ve easily made 40 gallons worth.

it’s the Bulk Reef Supply 4 stage RODI with the water saver attachment. Have a booster pump coming bc I don’t get 50psi from the tap here. And yea, the water quality charts are what the local water company reports as being from the tap.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

I'm surprised you don't have at least a trace of nitrate in a new cycled tank.

The two species of bacteria in PNS Substrate Sauce are denitrifiers.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I'm coming back to this after a really bad afternoon at work and only skimmed the more recent posts, so forgive me if you already addressed these questions. (And, like my earlier questions about salinity and oxygenation, I don't necessarily believe these are the problem, but it never hurts to toss out more ideas )

I think you said that you're testing the RODI water for residual chlorine, correct? If so, that test would also show chloramine since chloramine is chlorine plus ammonia. I believe you've ruled that out.

What is the TDS of your RODI water? I know you mentioned the new filters and using a lot of DI, so that's what's behind this question. Not sure if you performed any other tests on the filtered water, but in the interest of ruling out everything possible, it might be worth doing so. At the very least, if you find something unexpected, you could assume that the filters did miss something else...

Finally, earlier I asked about oxygen/gas exchange. It sounds like you have plenty of water movement so it's pretty unlikely that your tank has low oxygen. If/when you get to the point where you add new livestock and are worried about this though, adding an air pump/airstone will keep you covered. (Again, highly doubtful this is an issue, but not a bad idea to have an air pump -- battery operated is even better -- for emergency use )

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I have considered that - but if it’s a metal or other toxin I’d be worried it’s also now in the rocks and sand too?

re: toxins - as mentioned before I have ROX carbon in the rear chamber and have since I started the tank. If it was a spray or whatever, wouldn’t the carbon be pulling that out? Likewise- does carbon have any effect on heavy metals?

Two other things... If you haven't already done so, change the carbon and GFO (or skip the GFO for the moment).

The second thing - nice to meet another "she" in the group!

(Ok, third thing, related to the first and likely not of much help at this point... I wonder if you got a contaminated batch of carbon or GFO? Or, like the salt, are you using the same stock you had before?)

Fingers crossed that you find answers soon.

 

[Malcontent]

I do a lot of chlorine testing and don't consider any cheap tests reliable--not even the Hanna ULR total chlorine egg.

I have chloramine also and 5 carbon stages to deal with it.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I do a lot of chlorine testing and don't consider any cheap tests reliable--not even the Hanna ULR total chlorine egg.

I have chloramine also and 5 carbon stages to deal with it.

I just use a $5 kit from the pool supply place. Has always worked fine for me

 

[Malcontent]

I just use a $5 kit from the pool supply place. Has always worked fine for me

Chlorine toxicity to fish is measured in micrograms/L so I'm not sure a test strip that goes 0, 0.5, 1, 3, 5, 10 ppm is good enough.

0.1 ppm will kill quickly.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Chlorine toxicity to fish is measured in micrograms/L so I'm not sure a test strip that goes 0, 0.5, 1, 3, 5, 10 ppm is good enough.

0.1 ppm will kill quickly.

I don't use test strips.

 

[InactiveAcct]

Ugh that is the worst, I’ve been reefing for 15 years and I recently had struggles similar to yours setting up a Glofish danio tank for my toddler. Cycled tank, acclimated/ put one in, dead in an hour. Got one from different store, dead in an hour. Added more venting to hood, more flow, waited a day or two to let it settle, no more deaths - I had a bunch that it was a gas exchange issue.

90 minutes is REALLY fast to lose a fish from a toxin. I think we really need to go to basics here: oxygen, temp, very high salinity.
Did you take a sample of water to your LFS for testing salinity? I saw you mention refractometer - I really have issues with calibrating my admittedly cheap one. I really like the old school hydrometers since they do not need to be calibrated.

Last thing, I think you implied you bought them locally, but if you bought online it can be lethal to drip acclimate. Ammonia toxicity increases with ph- when you open the bag the ph will rapidly rise. When you drop acclimate, the fish is in the high ammonia for even longer. If you add Amquel to neutralize the ammonia, you could have a lethal interaction with a chemical that the retailer might be using to fight disease. Best bet is to temp acclimate by (float the unopened bag), and dump in the online orders. Ideally dumping into a QT tank that has a slightly low salinity, so you don’t have to worry about osmotic shock.

 

[Malcontent]

I don't use test strips.

Some cheap pool test kit then with awful resolution?

 

[Tamberav]

Does the city or anyone spray outside near where you live?

I have a friend in a country where the city sprays for mosquitoes because if dengue fever. If she isn’t around to cover her tanks when they come though, she ends up with some dead fish.

Just wondering if it could be some outside contaminant since you mentioned opened windows.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Some cheap pool test kit then with awful resolution?

Nope, a GREAT test kit with AMAZING resolution! (It's hard to mess up "clear", LOL!)