Hydros and BRS?

[slipknot23]

 

[BeanAnimal]

It is hard to compare prices between retailers in a space like this. MAP pricing aside, each has different wholesale contracts and profit centers. They will be competitive on some items and insanely out of line on other items. Some customers are willing to take discounts on their regular items and pay markups on others out of convenience or even loyalty. One stop shopping appeals to many folks, as does free or combined shipping and a familiar cart, customer service and overall experience.

 

[Serpentman2024]

Not sure what the controversy is. We're talking about "for profit" companies. Private equity companies like Bertram Capital exist solely for the purpose of profitability and cash generation. They could care less about reef keeping, etc. Typically, PE either invest in subcompanies for more cash generation or they bleed a company dry, sell off what's left and/or close up shop. If you look at their portfolio of companies, they (Bertram) own everything from coatings, industrial companies, cosmetics, media, construction, distribution, etc. so their interest in Aperture companies like BRS is purely profit/cash generation. So if you owned a company like BRS, why wouldn't you stack the deck and focus on other synergistic companies by squeezing out the competition? BRS is undoubtedly under a lot of pressure from their owners to hit numbers and plug their "sister" companies which all roll money up to Aperture and ultimately Bertram.

I'm a fan of BRS because they are a 1-stop shop for most everything. However, I also like companies like Saltwateraquarium.com or premiumaquatics.com as well. Quite frankly, in a consumer market, I am loyal to none of the above as price/availability dictate which outlet I buy from. As far as their videos and product recommendation's, I take anyone with a profit motive's opinion with a grain of salt. Although these are useful from a features/benefit perspective, there is a definite bias in most. I much prefer honest reviews from other consumers.

 

[thedon986]

Not sure what the controversy is. We're talking about "for profit" companies. Private equity companies like Bertram Capital exist solely for the purpose of profitability and cash generation. They could care less about reef keeping, etc. Typically, PE either invest in subcompanies for more cash generation or they bleed a company dry, sell off what's left and/or close up shop. If you look at their portfolio of companies, they (Bertram) own everything from coatings, industrial companies, cosmetics, media, construction, distribution, etc. so their interest in Aperture companies like BRS is purely profit/cash generation. So if you owned a company like BRS, why wouldn't you stack the deck and focus on other synergistic companies by squeezing out the competition? BRS is undoubtedly under a lot of pressure from their owners to hit numbers and plug their "sister" companies which all roll money up to Aperture and ultimately Bertram.

I'm a fan of BRS because they are a 1-stop shop for most everything. However, I also like companies like Saltwateraquarium.com or premiumaquatics.com as well. Quite frankly, in a consumer market, I am loyal to none of the above as price/availability dictate which outlet I buy from. As far as their videos and product recommendation's, I take anyone with a profit motive's opinion with a grain of salt. Although these are useful from a features/benefit perspective, there is a definite bias in most. I much prefer honest reviews from other consumers.

Everything you posted after your first sentence is the controversy and it sucks watching it happen to these companies.

 

[areefer01]

Not sure what the controversy is. We're talking about "for profit" companies.

Simple answer is it is the world we live in today.

I'm a fan of BRS because they are a 1-stop shop for most everything.

Hobbyist should be a fan because of Ryan's story and small business success.

 

[Serpentman2024]

Simple answer is it is the world we live in today.



Hobbyist should be a fan because of Ryan's story and small business success.

Agree. And its somewhat unfortunate. Ultimately, its the consumer market that is driving everything. As much as I complain about the Amazon'ification of everything, I line up like a rat at a feeder bar to participate.

Definitely a success story and one to be admired both as a hobbyist and entrepreneur. I'm guessing he didn't give the company away so I'm not shedding any tears.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Everything you posted after your first sentence is the controversy and it sucks watching it happen to these companies.

It is only controversy if you have feelings based on misplaced loyalty to any of them based on a misconception of why they exist or for that matter why they are still in business.

Without the likes Bertram rolling up companies, many of them would have floundered long ago.

It is a double edged sword.

To that end, Ryan didn’t start BRS as some benevolent venture for the good of the hobby, he saw an opportunity for profit. If one were to search the forum of the time, they may find that he took shared information during a large group buy circa 2007 and quickly worked to not only secure his own deal but make sure that the bulk vendors would not work with the group buy or others in the hobby.

Well timed and a gamble, but clearly a smart move in retrospect. He took a small business and built a small empire and was able to cash out. What is to be angry about? Business is a business. People get too emotionally attached to things that are not personal and shouldn’t be.

 

[dank.reefer]

Not sure what the controversy is. We're talking about "for profit" companies. Private equity companies like Bertram Capital exist solely for the purpose of profitability and cash generation. They could care less about reef keeping, etc. Typically, PE either invest in subcompanies for more cash generation or they bleed a company dry, sell off what's left and/or close up shop. If you look at their portfolio of companies, they (Bertram) own everything from coatings, industrial companies, cosmetics, media, construction, distribution, etc. so their interest in Aperture companies like BRS is purely profit/cash generation. So if you owned a company like BRS, why wouldn't you stack the deck and focus on other synergistic companies by squeezing out the competition? BRS is undoubtedly under a lot of pressure from their owners to hit numbers and plug their "sister" companies which all roll money up to Aperture and ultimately Bertram.

I'm a fan of BRS because they are a 1-stop shop for most everything. However, I also like companies like Saltwateraquarium.com or premiumaquatics.com as well. Quite frankly, in a consumer market, I am loyal to none of the above as price/availability dictate which outlet I buy from. As far as their videos and product recommendation's, I take anyone with a profit motive's opinion with a grain of salt. Although these are useful from a features/benefit perspective, there is a definite bias in most. I much prefer honest reviews from other consumers.

The problem for me is not that Bertram/Apeture or any company for that matter sells or advertises the products that they sell.

The problem for me is when these companies come into an industry/hobby and buy out as much of it as they can thus driving out the new small buissnesses and innovations that may otherwise benifit the consumers who would use those products.

There are many e-commerce companies out there that sell many products (ebay,amazon, temu, offerup, craigslist). These are all open marketplace sellers where who ever wants to can sell there keeping price competion up and thus price gouging down. When companies such as Bertram who has 0 interest in reef keeping come in and try to buy up the whole industry in order to price gouge its consumers is not right. IMO the reason these companies go after hobby markets is because there are not enough people in these markets to turn it into an anti-trust issue. The same thing happened in the automotive (hot rodding) hobby where 1 company bought out all of the performance companies(Holly, Edelbrock, Fast, Derale ETC.) the quality of these products all took a nosedive and the prices for them went up. Now if you want to participate in that hobby you have to buy your stuff from 1 person reguardless of the retailer.

Bertram realized that this hobby is expensive and people are willing to dump large amounts of money into it. They care nothing about reefkeeping but they still want to control the market.

Oh gosh, I gotta block this thread corporate greed just gets under my skin uhg. Reef keeping is supposed to be my outlet for stress release.

 

[Serpentman2024]

The problem for me is not that Bertram/Apeture or any company for that matter sells or advertises the products that they sell.

The problem for me is when these companies come into an industry/hobby and buy out as much of it as they can thus driving out the new small buissnesses and innovations that may otherwise benifit the consumers who would use those products.

There are many e-commerce companies out there that sell many products (ebay,amazon, temu, offerup, craigslist). These are all open marketplace sellers where who ever wants to can sell there keeping price competion up and thus price gouging down. When companies such as Bertram who has 0 interest in reef keeping come in and try to buy up the whole industry in order to price gouge its consumers is not right. IMO the reason these companies go after hobby markets is because there are not enough people in these markets to turn it into an anti-trust issue. The same thing happened in the automotive (hot rodding) hobby where 1 company bought out all of the performance companies(Holly, Edelbrock, Fast, Derale ETC.) the quality of these products all took a nosedive and the prices for them went up. Now if you want to participate in that hobby you have to buy your stuff from 1 person reguardless of the retailer.

Bertram realized that this hobby is expensive and people are willing to dump large amounts of money into it. They care nothing about reefkeeping but they still want to control the market.

Oh gosh, I gotta block this thread corporate greed just gets under my skin uhg. Reef keeping is supposed to be my outlet for stress release.

One can blame corporate greed but ultimately it is the consumer is to blame. Walmart proved that. People pass right by mom and pop stores for cheaper goods. We as consumers sell out everyday.

And quite frankly, anyone with a 401K or investment portfolio is 100% participating in corporate greed.

 

[dank.reefer]

I don't shop at walmart and I invest in real estate.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The problem for me is when these companies come into an industry/hobby and buy out as much of it as they can thus driving out the new small buissnesses and innovations that may otherwise benifit the consumers who would use those products.

At the same time many of these business can’t stand on their own long term and roll-ups are the only thing that can keep them and their products alive, especially in a small niche market like this and especially with the primary competition (China) not playing on an even field with the same rules.

 

[cdnco2004]

I bet you BRS was not about to collapse without the money from Apeture.

 

[dank.reefer]

At the same time many of these business can’t stand on their own long term and roll-ups are the only thing that can keep them and their products alive, especially in a small niche market like this and especially with the primary competition (China) not playing on an even field with the same rules.

It kills me to see so many people hooked on the low priced cheap crap thay comes out of China but that is a discussion for another venue. I always try and pay attention to where products come from and am willing to pay extra for products that are made here (USA) or in other countries that value quality and human rights(Germany, Japan, UK)

I bet you BRS was not about to collapse without the money from Apeture.

Right. Still I don't blame the owners for selling out. I'm sure they are all sitting very pretty. Sometimes they make an offer you can't refuse.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I bet you BRS was not about to collapse without the money from Apeture.

That is not why they were rolled up. They fit a piece of a bigger puzzle.

 

[pattepa]

Imagine if Ryan started to represent Hydros... Like the Verizon guy who switched over ... Can you hear me now?

I’m pretty sure that BRS has an airtight non-compete contract with Ryan.

 

[merkmerk73]

I was a big fan of BRS and ignored most of the moaning on the internet about them.

I love capitalism

But when I found out about their absurd 300-1000% markups on aquaforest sponges, and now this, I decided to partake in capitalism as well and fully support SWA.com instead of mixing and matching my orders.

And I won't lie - their amazing video series was a part of my loyalty, but that has fallen off lately.

 

[cdnco2004]

At the same time many of these business can’t stand on their own long term and roll-ups are the only thing that can keep them and their products alive, especially in a small niche market like this and especially with the primary competition (China) not playing on an even field with the same rules.

That is not why they were rolled up. They fit a piece of a bigger puzzle.

You need to make up your mind.

but as I said, BRS was not at risk of closing unless they were purchased.

 

[cdnco2004]

I’m pretty sure that BRS has an airtight non-compete contract with Ryan.

Well Non Competes are being outlawed in anycase

 

[Serpentman2024]

You need to make up your mind.

but as I said, BRS was not at risk of closing unless they were purchased.

BRS was privately held so their financial health is completely unknown. However, the point is moot. There are a lot of motivations to sell a business, not all of them stem from financial distress. No one can not fault the prior owner(s) for selling their business for whatever reasons. However, having the financial depth of a strong parent company along with synergistic sister companies certainly can help them compete.

In my opinion, the real travesty is the IP theft we're seeing from offshore markets. Direct rip-offs of products are being openly sold here in the US and elsewhere.

 

[Oldreefer44]

BRS was financially viable at the time of the buyout. This all started because one of the original partners wanted out and the other principles either didn't want to, or couldn't afford to buy him out. Several options were explored with the offer from Bertram judged to be the best option for the remaining partners.