PO4 and Aquaforest

[Flavio Carpi]

Hi Guys, a new page of the history, saturday i went to the LFS and request to them check my parameters:

Mg: 1600 (also stopped to dose the bailling ones) @red Sea
Ca: 310 (the test from them always have around ~300, i guess they are not reading right as my test keeps at 400) @red Sea
PO4: 0 @red Sea
Ph: 8 @red Sea
NO3: 0.25 @red Sea
Kh: 6.2

so after that i bought the bailling for Ca and KH that i will prepare tomorrow, but yesterday i was generous in food the fish with Brine Shrimp, pellets and also blood worms to the fishes.

Today i tested the water (btw my Mg / ph will arrive at my home the end of this week)

My results:
PO4: 0.16 and 0.09 @Hanna checker 713
No3: 0 @salifert
Ca: 400 @salifert
Kh 6.4 @salifert

Also i notice that my UV was ON since last Thursday, today i turnned off.

i'm still waiting my parameters come to 0 to start dose Np / Pro Bio S ,also not yet performed the WC. Maybe is time to replace the PO4 remover?

 

[Flavio Carpi]

Just add at the topic the supporters @jsker @Anirban

 

[jsker]

Hi Guys, a new page of the history, saturday i went to the LFS and request to them check my parameters:

Mg: 1600 (also stopped to dose the bailling ones) @red Sea
Ca: 310 (the test from them always have around ~300, i guess they are not reading right as my test keeps at 400) @red Sea
PO4: 0 @red Sea
Ph: 8 @red Sea
NO3: 0.25 @red Sea
Kh: 6.2

so after that i bought the bailling for Ca and KH that i will prepare tomorrow, but yesterday i was generous in food the fish with Brine Shrimp, pellets and also blood worms to the fishes.

Today i tested the water (btw my Mg / ph will arrive at my home the end of this week)

My results:
PO4: 0.16 and 0.09 @Hanna checker 713
No3: 0 @salifert
Ca: 400 @salifert
Kh 6.4 @salifert

Also i notice that my UV was ON since last Thursday, today i turnned off.

i'm still waiting my parameters come to 0 to start dose Np / Pro Bio S ,also not yet performed the WC. Maybe is time to replace the PO4 remover?

With the AF Balling, one dose all three.

 

[Gary Wilkinson]

Hi Guys, a new page of the history, saturday i went to the LFS and request to them check my parameters:

Mg: 1600 (also stopped to dose the bailling ones) @red Sea
Ca: 310 (the test from them always have around ~300, i guess they are not reading right as my test keeps at 400) @red Sea
PO4: 0 @red Sea
Ph: 8 @red Sea
NO3: 0.25 @red Sea
Kh: 6.2

so after that i bought the bailling for Ca and KH that i will prepare tomorrow, but yesterday i was generous in food the fish with Brine Shrimp, pellets and also blood worms to the fishes.

Today i tested the water (btw my Mg / ph will arrive at my home the end of this week)

My results:
PO4: 0.16 and 0.09 @Hanna checker 713
No3: 0 @salifert
Ca: 400 @salifert
Kh 6.4 @salifert

Also i notice that my UV was ON since last Thursday, today i turnned off.

i'm still waiting my parameters come to 0 to start dose Np / Pro Bio S ,also not yet performed the WC. Maybe is time to replace the PO4 remover?

It would be better to build your dKH before adding a Po4 remover, your dKH is slightly below the lower limit, Phosphate binds to Carbonates, adding new Po4 remover just now will likely reduce your dKH even more as the Carbonate will reduce the dKH

 

[Flavio Carpi]

@jsker unfortunetally i dont have the AF bailling here, and also its too heavy i guess to receive... but i'm dosing another bailling here, today i've prepared and start to dose to increase the Kh.

@Gary Wilkinson thanks for the explanation, my goal is to have 7,5dkh. my plan is to up 0,1 point dailly. as you suggest once i reach the 7.5 dkh i will change the po4 remover

 

[Flavio Carpi]

@jsker and @Anirban, follow the updates.

Yesterday i've setup the KH dosage, 50ml per day (based on the results, down to 30ml per day)

Kh: 7
Ca: 370 (is it normal that Ca drops when Kh raises?)
No3: 0
PO4: 0.09 (good) but second test 0.15 (bad)

Also i've removed almost everything of my fuge into the refugium to let more space to fuge grown.

ive dropped the dosage also that i will be out this weekend for a trip and i dont want to have a BIG surprise.

Regards

 

[jsker]

Thing are going to move around until you get your Ca, Mg, Alk balenced out.

 

[Flavio Carpi]

@jsker, so i will work today to start dose Ca as well

Unfortunetelly my Mg test kit not yet arrived, maybe next week

 

[jsker]

@jsker, so i will work today to start dose Ca as well

Unfortunetelly my Mg test kit not yet arrived, maybe next week

good place to be with the Ca is 420 to 450

 

[Gary Wilkinson]

Mg is the stabiliser

Mg underpins Ca and Alk

Mg need to be raised to 1320-1350 to balance your alk and Ca assuming your looking at 420-44- Ca and 7-7.5 alk

do not raise Mg more than 50 ppm / day
you can calculate the Mg needed from a separate buffer and add via ATU

If Mg has been low for a long time, you can get a double dip
i.e.
Mg is slow to rise, then jumps up and falls again
the second time it comes up it will stabilise

I experienced this on my first 2 systems, being prepared I bough a huge tube of balanced Mg for the current aquarium only to find none was needed (-)

once you have Mg Ca Alk stable we should also look at Potasium K it is also a major component of sea water not far behind Ca at 380-400 ppm

 

[Flavio Carpi]

@Gary Wilkinson thanks a lot, today ive received the MG test kit, i will perform a full test and post here. Regarding potassium the test that i liked before was the salifert one, but i cant find it anymore, which test do you recomend to measure K?

 

[Flavio Carpi]

@jsker , @Anirban as promised, follow the updates

Kh: 6.7
Ca: 440 (dont understand, i should be dosing Kh instead of Ca per the bailling method)
Mg: 1200 (really strange, due 1 week ago i got 1600 as a resulst at the LFS, ok they used red sea test, maybe is an error in my new salifert test kit (just arrived today)?)
PO4: incredible, the first time that i tested twice and got the same result = 0.05 (yesterday i tested, and got 0.00 and 0.05), it should explain why my KH is hard to increase?
No3: 0

pending point now is how to measure potassium.

 

[Gary Wilkinson]

@Gary Wilkinson thanks a lot, today ive received the MG test kit, i will perform a full test and post here. Regarding potassium the test that i liked before was the salifert one, but i cant find it anymore, which test do you recomend to measure K?

I use the KZ one which work on opacity, though i think the Salifert may be better, Red Sea sod a kit as well i belive

 

[Flavio Carpi]

@Gary Wilkinson , thanks. i will try to find out somebody that do international shipping to buy one.

@jsker, @Anirban , Regarding my parameters, unfortunately Wednesday i was not able to test, but i tested yesterday, follow my results:

Kh: 7.3
Mg:1260
Ca: 370
PO4: 0.07 e 0.06
Ph:8
NO3: 0

Really don't understand the roller coaster with the numbers for Ca and Mg. for Kh its being raised as i'm using the product to raise it. i noticed from monday until yesterday i saw more brown algae on glass.

 

[Gary Wilkinson]

until you get Mg up, the parameters will swing, Mg is a great stabiliser

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Have you got the flow higher in the reactor so your phosphate media tumbles? If not your not using it right and wasting media, which was what the video showed. You need to test the output of the reactor to see when the media is exhausted and always keep enough flow to keep it tumbling or else it will create flow through passages and stop reducing po4.

If the brown algae on the glass is slime like it could be a sign of too much carbon source for your tank to handle. Can we see a picture of this algae?
I would not be using a UV sterilizer with a young tank while starting to accustom the tank to a carbon source. I know some people have successfully used both but I and ozone should probably be used after the tank is stable and used to the carbon source, then introduced slowly if at all. Kinda defeats the purpose of growing bacteria just to kill it again.

Your magnesium doesn't need to come up much. Above 1300 is fine in order to keep alk and calcium balanced. Also I think your last numbers are fine for alk and calcium anyways, stability with thoes numbers will be fine.

 

[Flavio Carpi]

@Pedoconfuego could you show me same examples regarding how the midia should tumbles? (thanks for your inputs)

Today i tested my parameters ( in a different time that i normally test because its sunday), also on friday i receive some fish from my fathes, that is: YT , purple tang, hippo tang and 2 bangais .. I was expecting to see a boom in my parameter, buts seems its not effect my paramaters.... Also the tangs are eating a lot of the algae on glass...

Follow my parameters:

No3: 0
MG: 1350 (strange that i'm not dosing anything)
Kh: 7.3
Po4: 0.02 and 0.02
Ca: 400

The strange thing is that i'm not doing anything expect the KH solution. Also i've not performed any WC, maybe its now time do perform it?

I was planning to replace today my PO4 midia, is it time for it?

@Anirban @jsker

 

[Anirban]

I will say dont touch anything for next 72 hours. I am great fan of system stability and believe me less you play better it gets. So just stop doing anything and keep measuring parameters. Come back after 3 days.

 

[Thle009]

I would try some nitrate to see if it brings phosphates down first. If it doesn't go down any by the time you have had 1 or 2ppm Nitrates, just use gfo to get your phosphates lowered.
I am confused because you say you run gfo which should keep the tank at 0ppm phosphates but you alwYs have near .1 phosphates. If you change your gfo it should go down near or to 0ppm and if it doesn't your not using it right. You may have to keep refreshing it every few weeks if you have locked up phosphates for some reason.
I would not worry about colors so much, worry about health and growth then later colors will come.

Just curious, how does dosing nitrate work? My tank phosphate level was .02, NO3 was undetectable. I started dosing calcium nitrate the phosphate level went up to .04 and nitrate still undetectable. My sps started dying, some still alive but got all brown. I stopped dosing, should I kept dosing at that point? Would it bring the phosphate level down then? I stopped because I assume the PO4 level spiked was due to dosing NO3. Thanks.

 

[Anirban]

Just curious, how does dosing nitrate work? My tank phosphate level was .02, NO3 was undetectable. I started dosing calcium nitrate the phosphate level went up to .04 and nitrate still undetectable. My sps started dying, some still alive but got all brown. I stopped dosing, should I kept dosing at that point? Would it bring the phosphate level down then? I stopped because I assume the PO4 level spiked was due to dosing NO3. Thanks.

I will try to answer this. First, you should have waited a little more and second did you check it once or few times over couple of days. I just wanted to be sure if that increase reading is not due to an error and a steady effect. Now I dont exactly understand why your SPS died after dosing but browning can be due to several reasons. I hope you understand .02-.04ppm PO4 is not high and is good for the system. I personally favor feeding more to bring up the NO3 due to the fact it gives the coral complete nutrition instead of chemicals. Corals have polyps for feeding naturally so they should be supplied with food not chemicals. They can very efficiently use that and grow. But we due to aesthetic pleasure feed them less and try to maintain their need with chemicals. Example, I have a TCK Pikachu which generally stays greenish yellow so I thought I will make it yellow and started lowering my NO3. My nitrate generally stays at 2-4ppm maximum. Now as soon as the nitrate touch 0ppm I saw a great yellow colour but when I looked at other corals they were simply not happy. So , I slowly came back to the my starting 2-4ppm range. I achieve the increase in nitrate by feeding more not by chemical. I know it will help me to achieve the level faster with chemical dosing but its like temporary fix not a long term. If you want to increase nitrate simply increase feeding and then put a little more GFO in your reactor. The GFO will take care of excess PO4 and the extra nitrate you will see in test. But in this way there will be no damage to your reef or SPS.