SC Aquariums 50 gallon PNP

just keep the regular IO on hand then, do small water changes with the RC/CP, no dosing. ez! i have like 30+ corals and i don't have to dose.. yet. i did start a foray into the sps world so that probably won't last much longer, though..

did you decide on doing the kalkwasser? i kinda want to go that route, but my ato isn't kalk friendly and i don't want to have to replace the pump or clean the ato container all of the time

Honestly I think I'm going to go with 2 part dosing (I think). I think kalkwasser will work just fine for my needs but like the idea of being able to have more control over the dosing frequency, amount, ratios, ability to dose other trace elements or whatever I want down the road. Seems like I might as well just start leaning that way from the get go.

Hmm going to keep researching salts. That's not too bad of an idea. It may make more sense to keep looking into different salts as most of my frags will be softies with a couple of LPS I think. So pretty low on the demand.
 
2 part is probably the best. i bought some all for reef 1 part awhile back, but my tank likes to eat up alkalinity, but not so much calcium, so doesn't really help me. last time i tested my alk was 8.8, but my calcium was 490..

hence why i'm interested in kalk, but i don't want to buy a kalk reactor and i don't want to put it in my ato :confused:. the kalk also adds pH increase which would be nice too. seems great except for the wrecks my pump part :eek:
 
2 part is probably the best. i bought some all for reef 1 part awhile back, but my tank likes to eat up alkalinity, but not so much calcium, so doesn't really help me. last time i tested my alk was 8.8, but my calcium was 490..

hence why i'm interested in kalk, but i don't want to buy a kalk reactor and i don't want to put it in my ato :confused:. the kalk also adds pH increase which would be nice too. seems great except for the wrecks my pump part :eek:

Just get a single dosing pump? Then you will be all good to go.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/kalkwasser-via-dosing-pump-not-ato.227176/
 
2 part is probably the best. i bought some all for reef 1 part awhile back, but my tank likes to eat up alkalinity, but not so much calcium, so doesn't really help me. last time i tested my alk was 8.8, but my calcium was 490..

hence why i'm interested in kalk, but i don't want to buy a kalk reactor and i don't want to put it in my ato :confused:. the kalk also adds pH increase which would be nice too. seems great except for the wrecks my pump part :eek:

Wait aren't kalkwasser and 1 part both balanced solutions? So wouldn't you get similar results with kalwasser?
 
the doser wouldn't do much for me. the issue is you can't control the dosage with the 1 part. say i add 20 ml of 1 part, it's going to add x number of alk and x number of calcium. but since my tank doesn't eat up calcium like it eats up alk, i'd end up having a very high calcium number. i'd already prefer the calcium number to be a bit lower lol. but i use RC which has an alk of like 13 when it's mixed up so my alk drops a lot faster than my calcium. i think they're supposed to be used up in similar rates, but idk. doesn't' seem to be so for me.

my understanding is the kalk adds more alk than calcium, but you might be right. i'd really want it for the pH increase, although i live in socal so i can usually have the windows and doors open. just not lately when it has been cold so my pH has been around 7.9

edit: totally didn't read the link you put haha. this is interesting, i'll have to check it out
 
I think I'm just going to stick with IO.

Seems everytime I research I come to the same conclusion. Just use IO and dose to hit targeted values. Lots of opinions on salt and I think at this point it would be best for me to stick with the most vanilla salt there is lol.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/good-salt-mix-for-reef.288961/
 
the doser wouldn't do much for me. the issue is you can't control the dosage with the 1 part. say i add 20 ml of 1 part, it's going to add x number of alk and x number of calcium. but since my tank doesn't eat up calcium like it eats up alk, i'd end up having a very high calcium number. i'd already prefer the calcium number to be a bit lower lol. but i use RC which has an alk of like 13 when it's mixed up so my alk drops a lot faster than my calcium. i think they're supposed to be used up in similar rates, but idk. doesn't' seem to be so for me.

my understanding is the kalk adds more alk than calcium, but you might be right. i'd really want it for the pH increase, although i live in socal so i can usually have the windows and doors open. just not lately when it has been cold so my pH has been around 7.9

edit: totally didn't read the link you put haha. this is interesting, i'll have to check it out

Well you can still dose kalkwasser with a dosing pump. But yeah I think it is balanced also but honestly I'm not too sure. From what I read in theory you should dose calcium and alk at the same dose but in practice I think ppl see alkalinity consumed faster. I'm still trying to figure out what my calcium and Alk targets should be. I think 400 calcium is too low because 400ppm calcium has a balanced alkalinity of only 5.6 dKH. I think I need to shoot for 420 or 425 calcium as this will have a balanced alkalinity of ~8-9 dKH.

I'm not so sure but I assume the tank will try to come to a balanced calcium/alkalinity ratio or what not. Maybe that's not important as I am speculating.

@Randy Holmes-Farley

Sorry for the dumb question but is it recommended to target a balanced Calcium and Alkalinity? Also what causes Alk to drop faster in lots of people's tanks?
 
Well you can still dose kalkwasser with a dosing pump. But yeah I think it is balanced also but honestly I'm not too sure. From what I read in theory you should dose calcium and alk at the same dose but in practice I think ppl see alkalinity consumed faster. I'm still trying to figure out what my calcium and Alk targets should be. I think 400 calcium is too low because 400ppm calcium has a balanced alkalinity of only 5.6 dKH. I think I need to shoot for 420 or 425 calcium as this will have a balanced alkalinity of ~8-9 dKH.

I'm not so sure but I assume the tank will try to come to a balanced calcium/alkalinity ratio or what not. Maybe that's not important as I am speculating.

@Randy Holmes-Farley

Sorry for the dumb question but is it recommended to target a balanced Calcium and Alkalinity? Also what causes Alk to drop faster in lots of people's tanks?

Yeah I commented before I saw you were suggesting I dose the kalk with a dosing pump, rather than dosing the 1 part with a dosing pump. I'm definitely interested in that.

I religiously watch reefbuilders and Jake Adams thinks coral growth is all about salinity, temperature, and pH. Salinity seems fairly easy to keep at .026, temp seems ok in the winter for me, but this summer should be interesting.. not trying to have more $300 electric bills so the tank seemed to run at 82~ and all was good, but I didn't have many difficult corals last year. And then pH could be assisted with some kalk. So that's my reasoning :D
 
Screenshot_20190219-100334_Chrome.jpg
something I thought was interesting and took a screenshot. Thought of it reading your last page
Edit: this was a post from Hemmdog 2-19
 
Last edited:
Well you can still dose kalkwasser with a dosing pump. But yeah I think it is balanced also but honestly I'm not too sure. From what I read in theory you should dose calcium and alk at the same dose but in practice I think ppl see alkalinity consumed faster. I'm still trying to figure out what my calcium and Alk targets should be. I think 400 calcium is too low because 400ppm calcium has a balanced alkalinity of only 5.6 dKH. I think I need to shoot for 420 or 425 calcium as this will have a balanced alkalinity of ~8-9 dKH.

I'm not so sure but I assume the tank will try to come to a balanced calcium/alkalinity ratio or what not. Maybe that's not important as I am speculating.

@Randy Holmes-Farley

Sorry for the dumb question but is it recommended to target a balanced Calcium and Alkalinity? Also what causes Alk to drop faster in lots of people's tanks?
Maybe this will help
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/index.php
 
Last edited:
Screenshot_20190219-100334_Chrome.jpg
something I thought was interesting and took a screenshot. Thought of it reading your last page
Edit: this was a post from Hemmdog 2-19
Tropic marin salts.
Screenshot_20190130-084127_Chrome.jpg


I guess the issue I have is converting some of this info into usable information. Basically I need a dumbed down cookie cutter recipe to follow. I need some help getting my targets dialed in.

I think this below post from Randy Holmes-Farley helps a bit.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/poll-alkalinity-daily-demand.344824/

I wouldn't pick an optimal alkalinity target based on pH effects as a primary consideration.

That said, here's my discussion on alkalinity and why one might pick different values:

Optimal Parameters for a Coral Reef Aquarium: By Randy Holmes-Farley
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/re...-coral-reef-aquarium-randy-holmes-farley.html

Alkalinity

Like calcium, many corals also use "alkalinity" to form their skeletons, which are composed primarily of calcium carbonate. It is generally believed that corals take up bicarbonate, convert it into carbonate, and then use that carbonate to form calcium carbonate skeletons. That conversion process is shown as:

HCO3- → CO3-- + H+

Bicarbonate → Carbonate + proton (which is released from the coral)

To ensure that corals have an adequate supply of bicarbonate for calcification, aquarists could just measure bicarbonate directly. Designing a test kit for bicarbonate, however, is somewhat more complicated than for alkalinity. Consequently, the use of alkalinity as a surrogate measure for bicarbonate is deeply entrenched in the reef aquarium hobby.

So, what is alkalinity? Alkalinity in a marine aquarium is simply a measure of the amount of acid (H+) required to reduce the pH to about 4.5, where all bicarbonate is converted into carbonic acid as follows:

HCO3- + H+ → H2CO3

The amount of acid needed is equal to the amount of bicarbonate present, so when performing an alkalinity titration with a test kit, you are “counting†the number of bicarbonate ions present. It is not, however, quite that simple since some other ions also take up acid during the titration. Both borate and carbonate also contribute to the measurement of alkalinity, but the bicarbonate dominates these other ions since they are generally lower in concentration than bicarbonate. So knowing the total alkalinity is akin to, but not exactly the same as, knowing how much bicarbonate is available to corals. In any case, total alkalinity is the standard that aquarists use for this purpose.

Unlike the calcium concentration, it is widely believed that certain organisms calcify more quickly at alkalinity levels higher than those in normal seawater. This result has also been demonstrated in the scientific literature, which has shown that adding bicarbonate to seawater increases the rate of calcification in some corals. Uptake of bicarbonate can consequently become rate limiting in many corals. This may be partly due to the fact that the external bicarbonate concentration is not large to begin with (relative to, for example, the calcium concentration, which is effectively about 5 times higher).

For these reasons, alkalinity maintenance is a critical aspect of coral reef aquarium husbandry. In the absence of supplementation, alkalinity will rapidly drop as corals use up much of what is present in seawater. Water changes are not usually sufficient to maintain alkalinity unless there is very little calcification taking place. Most reef aquarists try to maintain alkalinity at levels at or slightly above those of normal seawater, although exactly what levels different aquarists target depends a bit on the goals of their aquaria.

Interestingly, because some corals may calcify faster at higher alkalinity levels, and because the abiotic (nonbiological) precipitation of calcium carbonate on heaters and pumps also rises as alkalinity rises, the demand for alkalinity (and calcium) rises as the alkalinity rises. So an aquarist generally must dose more calcium and alkalinity EVERY DAY to maintain a higher alkalinity (say, 11 dKH) than to maintain 7 dKH. It is not just a one-time boost that is needed to make up that difference. In fact, calcification gets so slow as the alkalinity drops below 6 dKH that reef aquaria rarely get much below that point, even with no dosing: natural calcification has nearly stopped at that level.

In general, I suggest that aquarists maintain alkalinity between about 7-11 dKH (2.5 and 4 meq/L; 125-200 ppm CaCO3 equivalents). Many aquarists growing SPS corals and using Ultra Low Nutrient Systems (ULNS) have found that the corals suffer from “burnt tips†if the alkalinity is too high or changes too much. It is not at all clear why this is the case, but such aquaria are better served by alkalinity in the 7-8 dKH range.
As mentioned above, alkalinity levels above those in natural seawater increase the abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate on warm objects such as heaters and pump impellers, or sometimes even in sand beds. This precipitation not only wastes calcium and alkalinity that aquarists are carefully adding, but it also increases equipment maintenance requirements and can “damage†a sand bed, hardening it into a chunk of limestone. When elevated alkalinity is driving this precipitation, it can also depress the calcium level. An excessively high alkalinity level can therefore create undesirable consequences.

I suggest that aquarists use a balanced calcium and alkalinity additive system of some sort for routine maintenance. The most popular of these balanced methods include limewater (kalkwasser), calcium carbonate/carbon dioxide reactors, and the two-part/three part additive systems.

For rapid alkalinity corrections, aquarists can simply use baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) or washing soda (sodium carbonate; baked baking soda) to good effect. The latter raises pH as well as alkalinity while the former has a very small pH lowering effect. Mixtures can also be used, and are what many hobby chemical supply companies sell as “buffersâ€. Most often, sodium carbonate is preferred, however, since most tanks can be helped by a pH boost.

It seems that 7-8 may be the recommended dKH. The Tropic Marin Pro salt is for those who wish to maintain an Alk between 6-8 and Randy recommends 7-8. So I guess the target for alk is between 7-8.

That means the calcium target should be around 415 right?

I still don't understand if you would want to target balanced Calcium and Alk levels. I am assuming yes but haven't seen anything that explicitly says this.
 

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