Taken from the wild . . .

[Lateral72]

Wait until OP finds out that the Pharmaceutical industry harvests 100's of thousands of Horseshoe Crabs yearly, collects 50% of their blood, and returns them to the wild, where they usually die.

 

[MTBake]

Need sources posted or I don't believe any of this.

And FWIW, I avoid farmed fish like the plague. It's bad for the water ways they're farmed by. Look at the Asian carp mess near lake Michigan. Those came from flooded fish farms on or near the Mississippi. Nutritional values are not as good as wild animals. Farm raised are fed a strict diet. Wild animals can forage for what they prefer. Just look at the yolk from a pastured chicken egg versus one raised in a tiny pen, force fed and forced to hatch as many eggs as possible in as short as time as possible. The chicken that is allowed to forage for what it wants to eat will have a deeper orange yolk versus that of a bird kept in a pen. The deeper colored yolk has more vitamins and minerals from the varied diet the animal is eating. Same can be said for wild salmon versus farmed salmon. The wild has a deeper pink, almost red colored flesh. The farm raised are very pale in comparison.

I hunt and fish. I keep and eat what I kill and catch. I only take what my family needs to survive.

 

[samnaz]

A lot of aquarists I'm sure are ok with owning animals taken from the wild but I gotta say I'm with you, I don't love the idea.

Most of the time you can never be sure how it was collected or where it came from, or what harm was done during the process. If at all possible, I get livestock that was tank bred or aquacultured. My new tank will be strickly aquaculture only. IMO, it is the future of the reefing hobby.

 

[samnaz]

Don't want to stir the pot - but you realize that farmed fish food - (salmon) actually causes more ecological harm than wild harvesting responsibility - the parasite, disease burden around the huge farms as well as the drugs put into the food and water - etc damages the local wild fish population. There is also a whole movement to avoid eating farmed fish. So - there's also that side.

took the words right outta my mouth!

 

[Fishfinder]

Thats why business school is a must. After first I was gonna wing it but my parents helped me to see reasons. I actually think, and am currently doing a study on this, but I should be able to raise fish in green ecosystem with minimal filters, pumps, stumps, etc. Im currently writing a paper on it for college.

If I can prove that a green ecosystem (one with no filters, pumps, etc) is possible then the cost will not be as high. Heck, I believe my fish could have the potential of being cheaper than most wild caught. Plus it allows the fish to grow up in a normal habitat with plenty of plants, algae, coral, etc which makes for a happier fish. The maintenance for water changes will be ungodly but I think I can make it profitable. The key that im figuring out is a lot of plants, marco algae, mangroves, moving water and inverts and not a lot of fish. I was going to post my finding on this website as my research furthers, but I do not wish to **** people off or make people mad at what i found so i probably will not post it.

This is impossible. For many reasons.

 

[DSC reef]

This is impossible. For many reasons.

I agree, so much wrong in that single post let alone the thread.

 

[Epic Aquaculture]

 

[MnFish1]

I may be wrong but I think she actually believes what she is posting - to be correct - to me that is not 'trolling'. A little over idealistic - yes - lacking any kind of evidence - yes. Im fine with people having ideas that are 'outside the mainstream' - but its up to those people to prove what their logic - somehow. Ive called her numerous times on the sources of the data she is talking about - and she cant provide it. That doesnt mean - really that her idea that 'people shouldn't take stuff from the ocean is 'wrong'. But -it is a totally unworkable, unrealistic, point of view in 2019. And likely for ever. There is the 'ivory tower' where everything is possible - and the 'real world'.

 

[drstardust]

What can be said with certainty is that Alex is not being intellectually honest. To present a claim as an undisputed fact, not only must the sources be cited exactly, but the burden of proof cannot be pushed away to those not making the claim.

 

[KrisReef]

When I went to pick up a sea urchin from a friends house yesterday I noticed that they were also selling their 2 inch long Horse Shoe Crab. I asked how they got it and they told me that they picked it up at their local beach. I "offered" to buy it from them and keep it safe. Would it be possible to return it to the wild since its only been in their tank for roughly 3 months?

PS I completely disagree about taking animals from the wild and HATE when people do this!

I completely disagree about returning captive animals into the wild. Our tanks are breeding grounds for all kinds of pests. Releasing stuff back into the wild is a textbook fail. The ocean will survive without any more helpful interventions or introductions.

Here's another way to look at it, that crab fell prey to a human and has been removed from the normal ecosystem. Reintroduction of one crab is not going to help the crab population, but if that crab is infected (bacteria, virus, algae) letting it go into the ocean could tip the ocean completely out of balance, right?

https://www.cdc.gov/outbreaks/index.html

 

[ScottR]

To everyone who disagrees with me,

I apologize if it seem s like I am scolding or being mean to anyone. That was not my intention. I had posted this question after I contacted my local state park Florida wildlife center and neither answered so I had figured the best idea was to go onto this site because this forum and its users are amazing and willing to offer their opinions. After about 5 mintues of posting this, the state park called me back. I asked them numerous questions, Such as if it was safe to return, should I put it in a Q.tank, and other questions that I have seen here. All the response I gave came from the Park rangers and thus I would inform people so they could learn just as I did. I realize that now, it may come off as scolding people but that was not my intention as stated above. I apologize.

As for the debate on captive bred fish, I will not change my opinion nor am I asking you to change yours. Would I like for all aquarium fish to be captive raised. well duh, but in my OPINION that will not happen for awhile no matter how much people like me push. I have also cited my sources roughly 3 times on this forum thus I am not going to keep stating them. You can take my statements or leave it. In the end you are welcome to your opinion and I am welcome to mine.

I am in this hobby for my own reason, just as you are in yours. I am not an environmentalist but a conservationist. There is a difference. I do not agree with tying my self to a tree to make a point, and would prefer to fight laws and governments to help our planet.

Thank you and have a good day.

I think your best practice at this point would be to breed and sell your fish. Sell them as captive bred. I frag my own corals and just give them away. I don’t think this will help drive down the price of corals or prevent any more corals being taken from the sea. But, if you can then you can.

 

[Bryson.bobby]

I completely disagree about returning captive animals into the wild. Our tanks are breeding grounds for all kinds of pests. Releasing stuff back into the wild is a textbook fail. The ocean will survive without any more helpful interventions or introductions.

Here's another way to look at it, that crab fell prey to a human and has been removed from the normal ecosystem. Reintroduction of one crab is not going to help the crab population, but if that crab is infected (bacteria, virus, algae) letting it go into the ocean could tip the ocean completely out of balance, right?

https://www.cdc.gov/outbreaks/index.html

Alex claims that the crabs do not carry diseases only because they are unlikely to catch one themselves

 

[Alex.M.]

I think your best practice at this point would be to breed and sell your fish. Sell them as captive bred. I frag my own corals and just give them away. I don’t think this will help drive down the price of corals or prevent any more corals being taken from the sea. But, if you can then you can.

I have plans on doing that in the future. So great idea lol it's awesome that you can grow coral. I'm so afraid that I'm going to kill my algae because I have a black thumb. I couldnt imagine growing something as delicate as corals.

 

[FishDoc]

When I went to pick up a sea urchin from a friends house yesterday I noticed that they were also selling their 2 inch long Horse Shoe Crab. I asked how they got it and they told me that they picked it up at their local beach. I "offered" to buy it from them and keep it safe. Would it be possible to return it to the wild since its only been in their tank for roughly 3 months?

PS I completely disagree about taking animals from the wild and HATE when people do this!

Without reading the other comments that I hope agree with mine, NEVER return a captive animal to the the wild regardless of its origin. A plethora of issues can stem from the introduction of captive aquaria into the wild like non-native hitchhikers and other bacterial/viral strains. Also, it sounds like your friend collected wildlife and without a permit it is likely against the law (Assuming you’re in the US).

 

[FishDoc]

I don’t see why you couldn’t.

You should not.

 

[FishDoc]

No.

This is the correct response.

 

[FishDoc]

The 40% is including world trade,( so other countires) and it was talking about salt water animals (including inverts). Other countries take a higher stance on captive breeding than wild harvesting. However America is based on money. If people are still willing to buy wild harvested fish then the supply will always be there. In the USA aqauriumist need to start to demand captive breed fish, and companies would start to supply it. But since people seem not to care (this thread is evidence) then the system will never change.[/QUOTE

The 40% is including world trade,( so other countires) and it was talking about salt water animals (including inverts). Other countries take a higher stance on captive breeding than wild harvesting. However America is based on money. If people are still willing to buy wild harvested fish then the supply will always be there. In the USA aqauriumist need to start to demand captive breed fish, and companies would start to supply it. But since people seem not to care (this thread is evidence) then the system will never change.

First of all, I highly doubt anyone in this community is against CB fish. If anything it’s likely the latter and most of us would love to see more species be successfully bread in captivity. What others have been pointing out, which to their point is correct, is that the vast majority of the species commonly kept and sold within the saltwater trade are WC. This is a fact. If you’re talking about purely based on number sold, the percentage may shift simply because of the popularity of clownfish and other easily CB species comprising a large majority of the sales.

 

[Alex.M.]

Alex claims that the crabs do not carry diseases only because they are unlikely to catch one themselves

I did not say crabs I said horse shoe crabs. It's part of the reason why they are studied in labs. Since everyone is about proof, I'm attaching just one article written about their incredible immune system. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11790537/

 

[Alex.M.]

Thank you for your time. However after speaking to my local park ranger, the horse shoe crab is being released into the same beach area it was taken. Horse shoe crabs are unique due to their advanced immune system. They do not get illness or parasites in their natural habitat. There are some great articles about how they tried to give horse shoe crabs cancer and its blood rejected it. It's a good read when you have the time. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11790537/

 

[FishDoc]

Again, I talked to my local state park, you know with park rangers, who's job it is to protect natural wildlife. If I could return it to the wild since it was taken from that park. I did not ask to return a raccoon or other mammal, I asked for a horse shoe crab. The return of a species to the wild is solely based on the species, length of captivity, and enviroment it was in. The state park will house the crab for one month to determine health and if all goes well it will be return.

Horseshoe crabs are like crocodiles, they almost never get infections or parasites due to their evolution

You’re jumping to some serious conclusions based on evidence you clearly don’t have. Five seconds and one google search later and I was able to dig up tons of primary literature on disease and infection affecting horseshoe crab...Please don’t spread information for which you have not yet vetted yourself.