What's Your Opinion?

[cb684]

I do not think it is about titles I think it is about understanding how experiences can trick us. Some people need a PhD to understand that, others don't.
I will give an example. I have two display tanks connected by a sump. One is a 300 gallon, with sand and two 8x54W T5 fluorescent bulbs, the second is 120 gallon with bare bottom and LED. PAR, times with light on and water flow / gallon on both are similar. I used to get a lot of coraline algae on the 300 and very little on the 120. My gut said type of light was playing a role. But as soon as I upgraded my cleanup crew on the 120 coraline algae started to grow as much as on the 300. So, now the question was light type a factor? Did cleanup crew helped to disseminate coraline algae? Both are possibilities, but it could also be due to the fact I finally cleaned the powerbeads on the 120... And even other factors I cannot see.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

One thing I found is you gotta learn who is who on a forum. There are some people you just don't question or challenge or disagree with (on particular topics) and it's often an established member. I've already learned the topic I should side step on here and different forums have different topics. I used to enjoy wrestling in conversations, but I'm to old, cynical and have been around on forums too long. There are a few people I often have very different views than and we enjoy our respectful debates..... I love debating, but you have to be able to handle your pride and sometimes say "You're freaking right". A lot do people have trouble with that.

I'm an NICU research nurse and journal checked facts are very important to me, but we have something in our field we call the "sacred cow". Somethings we don't know why they work, how they work, even when it seems impossible that it should work, but it does somehow..... some way..... so we continue to do it. Nursing from my generation, including me, hold on tightly to these cows. What I find "frustrating" in this hobby is that a lot of these discussions have already been studied and proven in another sector.... aquaculture. I wish hobbyists had access to this information as there's crazy amounts out there in this billion dollar industry. I'm hesitant to share some of this stuff, because people get defensive. So, even though I have the answer right in front of me, I keep it to myself. It's not worth "fighting" over. (Not saying I always have the right answer, far from it, but some thing are proven right and some things are just wrong).

I'm always afraid I sound stern in my "typing voice". If you were to have a conversation IRL, you would see I'm faaaaaaaar from that. I'm animated, so I really need my face to go with my words for people to "get me" sometimes. I may be saying the most stern thing ever, but my eyes are probably crossed and I'm making faces..... picture that whenever I say something. LOL!

 

[twilliard]

One thing I found is you gotta learn who is who on a forum. There are some people you just don't question or challenge or disagree with (on particular topics) and it's often an established member. I've already learned the topic I should side step on here and different forums have different topics. I used to enjoy wrestling in conversations, but I'm to old, cynical and have been around on forums too long. There are a few people I often have very different views than and we enjoy our respectful debates..... I love debating, but you have to be able to handle your pride and sometimes say "You're freaking right". A lot do people have trouble with that.

I'm an NICU research nurse and journal checked facts are very important to me, but we have something in our field we call the "sacred cow". Somethings we don't know why they work, how they work, even when it seems impossible that it should work, but it does somehow..... some way..... so we continue to do it. Nursing from my generation, including me, hold on tightly to these cows. What I find "frustrating" in this hobby is that a lot of these discussions have already been studied and proven in another sector.... aquaculture. I wish hobbyists had access to this information as there's crazy amounts out there in this billion dollar industry. I'm hesitant to share some of this stuff, because people get defensive. So, even though I have the answer right in front of me, I keep it to myself. It's not worth "fighting" over. (Not saying I always have the right answer, far from it, but some thing are proven right and some things are just wrong).

I'm always afraid I sound stern in my "typing voice". If you were to have a conversation IRL, you would see I'm faaaaaaaar from that. I'm animated, so I really need my face to go with my words for people to "get me" sometimes. I may be saying the most stern thing ever, but my eyes are probably crossed and I'm making faces..... picture that whenever I say something. LOL!

Nice your a NICU nurse! My wife and you would get along perfect

 

[Lionfish Lair]

Nice your a NICU nurse! My wife and you would get along perfect

We are our own brand of crazy, aren't we?

 

[bobbyM]

There is some truth in everything.
Nothing is ever exactly duplicated in this hobby.
Pick what make the most sense to you and adapt if it doesn't work out.

 

[ChrisAndJulie2012]

Have you ever gotten a group of three friends and each is a Ford, Chevy and Dodge guy?

To me it's all based on your personal experience and what threads you happened to stumble apon while seeking info on that light or what ever.

IMO, I think LED's are starting to loose their charm and people are slowly going back to Mh/T5's. With that said, I want LED fixture to save on utility bill, but love the shimmer of my Mh's. As does the wife and we all know who the boss is. Lol.

 

[Bryce Peterson]

I just have to sit back and laugh when I see some of the wars-of-words that go on in the threads. I think people should only give advice based on their own experiences. I am relatively new to reef keeping, but I have offered advice to people newer than me. Even someone like me can help another person avoid some of the pitfalls of this hobby, as long as it is based on personal experience.

On the other hand, I was recently looking into adding a new wrasse to my tank. In that case, I might trust the recommendations of someone who, say, wrote a few books on the subject over an employee of my lfs.

 

[Justiful]

Two wrongs sometimes make a right, two rights sometimes make a wrong. That is my opinion on this hobby. I think sometimes people forget we are dealing with complex ecosystems. For instance... I got into a discussion the other day about sand beds. I thought new live sand was a good option for upgrading/switching tanks. Someone else thought keeping the old sand was best method. Others thought mix them. Yet still others exist in the hobby who remove all their sand and go BB and have a ton of success.

My primary reason for new sand was ... remove old calcium carbonate that may or may not have absorbed phosphates, and nutrients that may or may not have built up over years. admittedly purely preventative for a problem that may or may not exist.

The primary reason for not getting new sand was it will cause a tank to cycle, or I have always kept the old sand. New live sand won't be any better it is a waste of money.

There was even a mini-debate about weather to rinse the new sand, or old sand, and if that would kill the bacteria and defeat the point.

Yes... my experience level with salt water tanks was brought up by the main person I was discussing with. It was even stated that those of us for new live sand where all less experienced then those advocating for reusing old sand. It was also stated flatly by someone "experienced" that "adding new live sand will cause a cycle and kill all your fish". Which just plane isn't true. If the tank did cycle it has more to do with the overall plan that was used to implement the transfer, more than the sand chosen. A cycle could happen either way depending on other factors like temprature, PH, water change regime, additives used, feeding schedule after transfer, overall chemical and biological filtration in the system, ext ext ext.

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Here is an example of two wrongs making a right, or two rights making a wrong. It is a fun story troubleshooting game, feel free to give it a go.

Example: Little Susie a new reefer runs her tank at 77 degrees with a PH of 7.8 . Her corals are not growing as much as she would like so she asks for advice.
Little johnny says no no sussie that is all wrong. You should be 80 degrees and PH 8.3 I have done it this way for years and it is better for corals. Little Sussie slowly changes her temperature and PH over the weekend and programs her lights and leaves town for 2 days after getting it all right and sets her autofeeder like always. She comes back and all her fish except one died and he isn't looking so hot. Little johnny snickers about how she can't do anything "right" . What happened in little Sussie's tank that killed her fish?

If you need a hint look below.
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Hint: One of little Sussies fish was still alive. It had lost equilibrium, showed hyperexcitability, and increased breathing.

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Hint2: Little Sussie has always enjoyed feeding her fish.
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Hint3: Little Sussie notices an increase in algae in the tank after getting back.
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Hint4: At the start of the example I stated her corals are not growing as much as she would like. The "what happened to her fish" is directly related to her original problem.
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Like I said... sometimes two wrongs make a right. And two rights make a wrong. Without all the information sometimes good intentions can have negative consequences. Even if advice is correct for a given situation, it may have unintended consequences. The hints I gave are often the information that comes out after the fact, which is why the most truly experienced people I see on these forums always ask additional questions before jumping into giving advice. One of the best advice givers on these f0rums, not naming any names... but he has his own sub-forum, always asks for more information, or points out when people, myself included, jumped to conclusions without considering other things. For instance the other day on a calcium question someone had, I forgot to consider dKH not changing.

Answer: I will post it in a bit. Have fun. Fell free to ask followup questions. But little Sussie may not have the answers, she is new and very distraught at the loss of her fish. She will give any additional information asked for or say she doesn't know or can't find out just like many new reefers on these forums.

Bonus: Common advice for a "slow growing" corals would be better lighting, feeding them, and checking and correcting calc levels. Knowing now what her problem was what could have happened if she followed that advice instead in 1 sentence each.

 

[dbl]

Ask 10 people one question about this hobby, and you'll get 12 answers. And yes, some people are very passionate about their beliefs.

I've said this before, but this seeming inability to accept a difference of opinion is a growing societal problem, certainly not isolated to this or other forums. Far too many self-esteems are based on likes, dislikes, shares, forwards, pokes...pick your social media feedback method. So an expressed opinion refuted by someone is viewed as an insult instead of simply a difference of opinion.

I'm just two years into the wonderful world of aquaria and would be the first to admit, I know little to nothing to be an actual fact in this hobby. But of course, all this is only my OPINION and it's really okay if you disagree.

 

[human]

I know what works for me in this hobby and I'll share my experience with anyone, but I know the way I do things is not always going to please everyone, and that's OK for me. I'm always looking for other's opinions on different techniques people use in this hobby. I've only had 2 reef tanks in my life, a 75g that was 15yrs old before I had to tear it down to move and that same tank that was up for 8 months before the seam blew. My current 20g is just rock and algae, the only survivor of my 75 a long nose hawkfish, a yellow-tailed damsel I acquired from a friend, a scarlet hermit crab and a couple snails, oh I have one apstasia too. I don't have a sump or a skimmer, just an RW-8 powerhead almost at max power. The thing with that tank is I never feed it, I just top it off when it needs it. Is it a pretty tank? Probably not to most, but it's effective at keeping the inhabitants happy and healthy and that really is the point when it all comes down to it. I think a lot of people depend on the new tech that comes out for this hobby and rely on it too much, but that's just my opinion. I joined this forum to learn, I take other's opinions on certain subjects and follow through with my own research, there is no one right way to keeping a reef tank, but you're always going to find those few people that know-it-all, but that's the joy of forums.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I agree strongly with 143mpco that folks often do not properly distinguish facts and observations from interpretations and opinions. Both those speaking and those reading often get these two critical differences confused.

All facts and observations can have value. They may need proper interpretation to be useful, but they are always correct.

Not all opinions have value. Some are worse than useless if they express things that are just wrong and lead others to believe incorrect ideas.

For example:

Magnesium is depleting really fast in my tank. It dropped 200 ppm in a week. I measured it twice, so I know it is right. How do I raise it?

Only the second and and part of the third sentences are facts and observations. They have value, although not in the way the writer intended.

The first sentence is an interpretation that is wrong. It does not have value. Others reading it might be misled into thinking that magnesium might drop that fast in some cases, so in that sense it could be worse than useless.

Folks, especially newer reefers, reading threads should try to recognize these differences, and not always give credence to opinions that might not actually be valid.

 

[jackson6745]

My opinions based on experience and personal feeling/observations. In general I tend to believe there is only one BEST way to do things, but many acceptable ways to complete the same task. I'm always learning from others and my own experience in deciding what the BEST method is. Of course this changes time and time again

LIGHTS - I continue to dislike LED as primary lighting. I know they can work, but particularly for SPS the spread is terrible and manufacturer recommendations are misleading. I wouldn't mind going all LED on my reef as an experiment, but complete coverage from quality fixtures will cost me $2k+, not save much energy wise, and probably lose half their value at resale time due to ever changing models.
T5 is the best thing since swiss cheese, and halide + T5 is the King of lighting. It is true about halide heat, so I always recommend T5 to newer SPS keepers.

CHINA - I avoid Chinese made products as much as I can. I don't agree with copy-cat designs, and pricing that is not sustainable by US manufacturers. But hey, we get to save a buck, and an American distributor of Chinese made goods makes a killing!

POWERHEADS - Ecotech and Tunze are still at the top of my list. Gyre flow pattern can be useful in longer aquariums IMO, but I had a Gyre 130 break in 3 weeks of use. Don't feel like dealing with a product that can break so fast.

SALT - IMO the salt base is all the same. Factor such as quality control and added buffers seem to control pricing. I've been using coralife salt for over 10 years in my SPS reefs. I see no need to change, or the need from anyone to change for their current salt to the latest and greatest.

AND MORE..

 

[Duke4Life]

The only true common thing in this hobby we all have is a true pure love for the oceans. Other than that we all got into this hobby for different reasons. Can't tell ya'll how many times I've had to explain/defend my tank and what I'm creating and sustaining because I have an eel. Not all opinions are the same, just like all eels aren't the same. That's what makes this awesome.

 

[Justiful]

In case anyone was wondering. Little Sussie had an ammonia(NH3/NH4+) problem. She had prolonged exposure to ammonia due to overfeeding. But she wasn't aware of it as her API test kit always looked closer to 0 instead of 0.25ppm when she did all her tests in the morning before feeding. When she increased PH to 8.3 in the morning, she actually made the PH 8.5 ish around mid day. The temperature increase also sped up the reaction creating ammonia from detritus. Increasing Total Ammonia in her system over her 2 day holiday. As before with a slower reaction time her CUC was able to effectively contain the detritus before it put off excess levels, however the sped up reaction caused ammonia to release faster. But it wasn't that increase that killed the fish so quickly by itself, it was the fact the Total Ammonia, now had a 5x increase in NH3(free ammonia, un-ionized ammonia) caused by the temperature and PH increase. NH3 is significantly more dangerous.

in summary.
Death by
Significantly higher NH3 caused by temperature increase and PH increase. Exacerbated by an increase in total ammonia after CUC detritus consumption, fell further behind detritus ammonia reaction. Which was then unable to be handled by her biological filter which was already stressed.

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PS. I create problems like this myself to understand a concept i got a mini journal of these silly things. If someone notices I made a mistake in the word problem related to how aquarium systems work. DON'T be nice point it out lol.

 

[Elegance Coral]

There is a huge difference between opinion, or belief, and fact. Unfortunately, many of us have a hard time making that distinction. We should be open to others having opinions, or beliefs, that differ from ours, but when it comes to fact, we're either right, or we're wrong. This is where we run into problems. Someone points out a fact that contradicts another person's beliefs, and feelings get hurt. Then the flame war begins. Yes, there are those that will argue strictly over an opinion or belief. This is absurd. It only leads to both parties looking ignorant. I'm an old school MH kinda guy, but I'm not going to argue the point with a T5, or LED, person. The evidence is overwhelming that they all work. If there are aspects of a particular lighting system that you prefer, then by all means, run that light, but don't attack someone else for running something different.

Some of you have read my posts, and know that I'm no stranger to debate. I believe that if this hobby is to continue moving forward, as it has done, we need to continue to correct false information. Over the past decade, this hobby has advanced in leaps and bounds. A large contributing factor to these advancements have been people coming to forums like this, armed with fact, and dispelling false beliefs. Yes, feelings have been hurt, and tempers have flared, but in the end, the hobby is much better off for it.

 

[RMS18]

There more than 1 way to achieve any goal. People have good and bad experiences with equipment all day long. Once a bad experience has occurred (possibly even from user error) that product is now on their bad side and the next product they try that works is the best in the world lol. I have tried to copy some settings for example for my AI primes that others have on their tanks that they say are growing and thriving like crazy, all it did in my tank was bleach stuff. I think most users are smart enough that when they ask a question they can filter out the responses that are to biased. When I respond I try to put the pros and cons I experienced with that product. People need to stop being so sensitive and understand that at the end of the day this is a forum, an online social media tool and with thay comes people who say things they would not say to someone's face. Most of these "bitting your head off" would never happen face to face.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

@Bmwm235i I think it goes both ways with people being sensitive. Maybe people also shouldn't type what they wouldn't say face to face. One side, don't be so sensitive and other side, don't be a butt in the first place.

I honestly don't see this changing any time soon. This has been around since I joined my first forum in 2000. Recently I've been spending time on Facebook, but holy mackerel, people can be very disrespectful on there. That's not what I want and I'm hoping to find a nice community here on Reef2Reef. I wanna talk, share and laugh. I've met some of my closest friends through the internet and this hobby..... even met my husband that way. O.O.

 

[mikesilverado8888]

I think it's because we love the hobby so freaking much if you love something lot you want the best for it

 

[redfishbluefish]

I think it's because we love the hobby so freaking much if you love something lot you want the best for it

But therein lies the problem, because one person's "best" is another's worst nightmare.

 

[RMS18]

@Bmwm235i I think it goes both ways with people being sensitive. Maybe people also shouldn't type what they wouldn't say face to face. One side, don't be so sensitive and other side, don't be a butt in the first place.

I honestly don't see this changing any time soon. This has been around since I joined my first forum in 2000. Recently I've been spending time on Facebook, but holy mackerel, people can be very disrespectful on there. That's not what I want and I'm hoping to find a nice community here on Reef2Reef. I wanna talk, share and laugh. I've met some of my closest friends through the internet and this hobby..... even met my husband that way. O.O.

Yea well within the world there is diversity and with that comes different personalities and manners. What your looking for is going to be a small niche group of people that most likely you would have to choose to make up this community your looking for. My first forum I joined about 15 years ago (I'm 28) was a blackberry forum, then came the bmw forums and learned if you can't deal with the heat get out of the kitchen. [emoji6]