Tips for quoting synergy ghost 16” overflow

[nbd13]

Having a rolling wave in a reef tank is mostly overrated anyhow. Move the vortech down and run them on reef rest mode with one anti sync to the other. That’ll give you a stable water surface and better overflow performance.

Not sure I can run reef crest mode and antisync? Doesn’t seem to be an option in Apex fusion?

 

[nbd13]

Really try this ---> Make the second pipe 5 mm taller than the one that works now with a cut to the height that you have the second pipe now.

Not sure I can make it much higher. The emergency is about 1/2” from top and the secondary is about 1/4-1/2” lower than the emergency.

 

[ca1ore]

Not sure I can run reef crest mode and antisync? Doesn’t seem to be an option in Apex fusion?

Sure you can. I’m an old style programmer so I don’t use the fusion wizards, so cannot help with those; but essentially you just create an anti synch profile and select which is the master pump. Then whatever the master is running the slave runs the inverse. This assumes you have the WXM module. If not, you’d have to do it on the vortech control boxes.

 

[nbd13]

Sure you can. I’m an old style programmer so I don’t use the fusion wizards, so cannot help with those; but essentially you just create an anti synch profile and select which is the master pump. Then whatever the master is running the slave runs the inverse. This assumes you have the WXM module. If not, you’d have to do it on the vortech control boxes.

I do have wxm and the pumps are connected to that. See pic below. When I select anti sync mode I then pick the other right side MP40. But I can select reef crest mode. Just the intensity of the pump from 0-100.

 

[MaiReef]

Not sure I can make it much higher. The emergency is about 1/2” from top and the secondary is about 1/4-1/2” lower than the emergency.

Maybe mark on the 3rd emergency drain where the waves go to and put it there. The other option is to make it an 1/8" bigger and then just drill a couple holes slightly below.

Tough one, but can be fixed with time and patience. Do you have the U ends which is durso style? That may do it. At least on the second pipe.

 

[nbd13]

Maybe mark on the 3rd emergency drain where the waves go to and put it there. The other option is to make it an 1/8" bigger and then just drill a couple holes slightly below.

Tough one, but can be fixed with time and patience. Do you have the U ends which is durso style? That may do it. At least on the second pipe.

I do have a U on the main and took the I off the secondary. Maybe I’ll try putting the U back on now that I have the water level right?

 

[ca1ore]

Like I said, I’m not familiar with the fusion wizards. Whichever pump you set to antisynch only needs a power level set (50%, 80%, whatever you choose). It’s the master pump that you set to reefcrest, along with a power set level.

 

[Jimbo662]

I have 3 MP40s on the left side and 2 on the right. Maybe I’ll move one all the way down on the right to keep detritus off the bottom. Then run the other 2 like you said?

You have a quantity of 5 MP40's on the tank???? Did I miss where you said how big the tank is????

 

[Jimbo662]

I do have a U on the main and took the I off the secondary. Maybe I’ll try putting the U back on now that I have the water level right?

This is why I always use the herbie drain. Simple plain straight drains!

 

[nbd13]

You have a quantity of 5 MP40's on the tank???? Did I miss where you said how big the tank is????

No 3 MP40s. 150 gallon. 2 on right and 1 on left.

 

[minus9]

What's your flow rate on the return pump? Btw, I run 4 mp40's on my shallow 90g, two on the back wall and one on each side. I run reefcrest during the day and lagoon at night. I also run nutrient transport mode twice a day, once in the morning and once in the afternoon. I have two 3/4" returns with the random flow generators on them and I have plenty of flow throughout my tank and the only water sound I have is when my chaeto grows too much and spills over the side of my refugium and causes a cascade (my sump is modified so that the water flows over the divider instead of passing through the "trigger" opening on my emerald 34). The water level in my external box doesn't go above the bulkheads, but there's enough that covers the primary drain. I use both "U" fittings (both have holes) and on my main drain the top of the fitting is 2 1/2" below the top of the box and the secondary is 1" below the top. My emergency drain is about a 1/2" below the top. The difference in height between my main drain and secondary could be that I didn't push the "U" fitting down that much on the secondary? The next time I do a water change, I can take them out and give you my measurements? I do w/c's on Sundays. I really hope you get this dialed in.

 

[nbd13]

What's your flow rate on the return pump? Btw, I run 4 mp40's on my shallow 90g, two on the back wall and one on each side. I run reefcrest during the day and lagoon at night. I also run nutrient transport mode twice a day, once in the morning and once in the afternoon. I have two 3/4" returns with the random flow generators on them and I have plenty of flow throughout my tank and the only water sound I have is when my chaeto grows too much and spills over the side of my refugium and causes a cascade (my sump is modified so that the water flows over the divider instead of passing through the "trigger" opening on my emerald 34). The water level in my external box doesn't go above the bulkheads, but there's enough that covers the primary drain. I use both "U" fittings (both have holes) and on my main drain the top of the fitting is 2 1/2" below the top of the box and the secondary is 1" below the top. My emergency drain is about a 1/2" below the top. The difference in height between my main drain and secondary could be that I didn't push the "U" fitting down that much on the secondary? The next time I do a water change, I can take them out and give you my measurements? I do w/c's on Sundays. I really hope you get this dialed in.

Hey,

It would be awesome if you could take pictures!

I run 450 gph on my return I have 2 3/4” returns with loc-line on them and have 1” flow sensors on each side so I know the exact amount.

How low in the tank do you have your MPs? What percentage do you run the MPs at?

Do you get a wave at the top of you display tank at all or fluctuating water level at all in the display tank?

So in your external box the holes/bulkheads from the Internal box aren’t covered all the way? You don’t get s waterfall noise from that?

So you main drain is 2.5” from the top of the U to the top of the external box? The secondary is 1” from the top of the U to the top of the box?

Weird that you can run more flow and not have an issue.

Thanks!

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

The difference in height between my main drain and secondary could be that I didn't push the "U" fitting down that much on the secondary?

this^^

So you main drain is 2.5” from the top of the U to the top of the external box? The secondary is 1” from the top of the U to the top of the box?

Weird that you can run more flow and not have an issue.

There is a lot of literature on the bean animal design. Naturally when increasing the flow through the tank the water level in the external box is going to rise. This will cause issues with the amount of water flowing through your "open" (what you call "secondary"). there are 3 ways to correct this and limit the water flowing through the open, ONE, is to open the gate valve to allow more water through the "full siphon" (what you call "primary") getting the water to trickle through the "open", TWO, raise the U bend higher thus allowing the water to trickle through the "open", there are a lot of things that you have to be concerned with when doing this, main one is not to raise it higher than the "emergency" stand pipe. THREE, adjust the flow through your tank and sump. Some people don't have the option to do this simply because it requires an adjustable return pump or the required plumbing to either divert water back to the sump or other components or restrict it with ball valves.

Looking at your videos, I personally think that the air bubbles are a result of a necessary flaw in the way the system was designed. The bean animal design never intended for the full siphon to have a hole on the top. I can only guess the reason for this is because the external overflow is so small it has little room to allow the water to build up in the external overflow to correctly create a full siphon.. Instead, it utilizes that hole to prevent water from overflowing onto the floor during start up and assist in eventually creating a full siphon. Normally this was fixed by terminating the full siphon (in the sump) slightly under the water so that the water level in the external overflow doesn't need to rise up too high to overcome the pressure created by the pocket of air trapped in the standpipe (again at start up). It's the best of both worlds the stand pipe is only 1/4-1/2" under the water and the water doesn't get dangerously close to spilling onto the floor. Because that hole is there, it can never be a full siphon if it's occasionally drawing air. The water line in the external box needs to be high enough to prevent air from making its way into that hole or the U bend needs to be low enough to maintain a healthy distance between the hole and water line, not sure if you can lower it or not.

Another concern is to break up the rhythmic oscillation in the tank, It's great to show people that you can create this beautiful symphony with the pumps and create a perfect wave in the tank (I have a virtual outlet labeled "Wave" so that I can show it off to my non reefing buddies). I would strive more for of a random flow trying to keep that from happening. Looks like you figured out how to sync and anti sync, what I would suggest is get rid of the "constant" flow and trade it out with reefcrest, tidal or lagoon and anytime you use pulse or nutrient make one of the 2 on the right the master and simply make the other 2 anti sync slave to that one.

The bean animal can be tricky to set up when you're figuring everything out for the first time, but once you grasp the concepts and correct the problems as they come along, you will be an expert in no time.

 

[nbd13]

this^^


There is a lot of literature on the bean animal design. Naturally when increasing the flow through the tank the water level in the external box is going to rise. This will cause issues with the amount of water flowing through your "open" (what you call "secondary"). there are 3 ways to correct this and limit the water flowing through the open, ONE, is to open the gate valve to allow more water through the "full siphon" (what you call "primary") getting the water to trickle through the "open", TWO, raise the U bend higher thus allowing the water to trickle through the "open", there are a lot of things that you have to be concerned with when doing this, main one is not to raise it higher than the "emergency" stand pipe. THREE, adjust the flow through your tank and sump. Some people don't have the option to do this simply because it requires an adjustable return pump or the required plumbing to either divert water back to the sump or other components or restrict it with ball valves.

Looking at your videos, I personally think that the air bubbles are a result of a necessary flaw in the way the system was designed. The bean animal design never intended for the full siphon to have a hole on the top. I can only guess that the reason for this because the external overflow is so small and has little room to allow the water to build up in the external overflow to correctly create a full siphon.. Instead, it utilizes that hole to prevent water from overflowing onto the floor during start up and assist in eventually creating a full siphon. Normally this was fixed by terminating the full siphon (in the sump) slightly under the water so that the water level in the external overflow doesn't need to rise up too high to overcome the pressure created by the pocket of air trapped in the standpipe (again at start up). It's the best of both worlds the stand pipe is only 1/4-1/2" under the water and still allows for complete silence. Because that hole is there, it can never be a full siphon if it's occasionally drawing air. The water line in the external box needs to be high enough to prevent air from making its way into that hole or the U bend needs to be low enough to maintain a healthy distance between the hole and water line, not sure if you can lower it or not.

Another concern is to break up the rhythmic oscillation in the tank, It's great to show people that you can create this beautiful symphony with the pumps and create a perfect wave in the tank (I have a virtual outlet labeled "Wave" so that I can show it off to my non reefing buddies). I would strive more for of a random flow trying to keep that from happening. Looks like you figured out how to sync and anti sync, what I would suggest is get rid of the "constant" flow and trade it out with reefcrest, tidal or lagoon and anytime you use pulse or nutrient make one of the 2 on the right the master and simply make the other 2 anti sync slave to that one.

Thanks for the detailed explanation!!!

I am having trouble setting up anti sync and reef crest mode with the Neptune fusion interface. I don’t understand how to do this. You can select the pump and pick the mode reef crest, nutrient or anti sync:

BUT when I select antisync I can only pick what other pump is the “slave” I cannot pick the “mode” it’s in like reef crest?

Then when I’ve done the antisync and pick the slave pump it doesn’t seem to control the slave pump? It’s like the slave pump is still set on reef crest and is not opposite such as the master pump being at 70% and the slave at 30%.

Maybe I’m doing something wrong?

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

The mode is selected by the master, so if pump 1 is the master simply set to reefcrest then for pump 2 you select sync or anti sync and tell it to be a slave to pump 1. You don't need to tell pump 2 to be on reefcrest because it's looking to pump one to tell it what mode to be on. All it cares if it is going to mimic it or completely be the opposite of it.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Then when I’ve done the antisync and pick the slave pump it doesn’t seem to control the slave pump? It’s like the slave pump is still set on reef crest and is not opposite such as the master pump being at 70% and the slave at 30%.

Maybe I’m doing something wrong?

From how I understand it, anti sync only looks at the percentage. In modes like reefcrest, tidal and lagoon, anti sync is only going to look at the percentage of the master. If master is set to 90% then the slave is going to run at 10%. here's where it gets tricky, when the master is set to reefcrest, the slave is still going to run reefcrest mode on it's completely random schedule just never to exceed 10%. If by chance the master is reefcresting at 10% doesn't mean the slave is doing the opposite. All it cares about is not to exceed 10%

 

[nbd13]

The mode is selected by the master, so if pump 1 is the master simply set to reefcrest then for pump 2 you select sync or anti sync and tell it to be a slave to pump 1. You don't need to tell pump 2 to be on reefcrest because it's looking to pump one to tell it what mode to be on. All it cares if it is going to mimic it or completely be the opposite of it.

This finally makes sense! Thanks!!!

I’ll grab a video later today or how I have it set now and the little noise I have going on. See if anyone has more thoughts.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[minus9]

I might have time later today to shoot a quick vid of my setup? It's funny, but my QT and temp nano tank in the next room are louder than my main display, but that was the plan all along, right? I remember when I first set my tank up, it took a while to find the right combo for the height of the standpipes.

 

[nbd13]

The mode is selected by the master, so if pump 1 is the master simply set to reefcrest then for pump 2 you select sync or anti sync and tell it to be a slave to pump 1. You don't need to tell pump 2 to be on reefcrest because it's looking to pump one to tell it what mode to be on. All it cares if it is going to mimic it or completely be the opposite of it.

Maybe I thought I understood this...

Here is a picture:

If the Rtfront is the master and the other to are set to antisync shouldn’t the percentage be different?

Right front Master:

Left front slave:

Should the percentages be opposite?

Thanks

 

[nbd13]

Here is a video showing how quit it is now...


Thanks everyone for the help. I’m satisfied with it.

Also I sent an email synergy and just FYI they called me to assist with the issue too.

They said like mentioned in here the bulkheads from the inner box need to be covered, usually that means raising the primary drain.

They also said that the gate valve should be about half way open and water should be going down the primary and secondary about equal to get the thing quit...

What I don’t understand is you buy their precut pvc for the external box and it’s so short. You think they would raise them.

They also said the holes are there in the Us for people running 2000 gph+ flow to help force water down.