What do you think about COA's

[Psychographic]

If you are into the LE hype, it's a great idea, if your not into it, it's a dumb idea. I also don't think you will ever change anyone's mind on how they feel about this situation.

I myself think LE, not only is an improper use for the terminolgy, is a waste of time, because there is no way to actually prove any lineage and second it devalues any corals that don't have lineage even if it is the exact same coral.

Now before anyone gets their panties in a bunch about proving lineage, let me give you just one of many scenerios that could happen.

So lets say I go to a frag swap and buy a piece that just so happens to be just like what my friend has, who can claim lineage. I need to make a few bucks and want to claim lineage on my no-name piece, so I get him to agree that he sold me a frag 2 years ago and now my frag has lineage.

Now what good is a COA? If you are good with designing on a PC, you could forge a COA. The idea of a holograph is cool, but it will only prove that the original person who bought it has the real deal, anything after that could be a fake.

Unfortunately this hobby is driven more and more by ego's and greed. You just have to read the backstabbing and trash talking that goes on by importers to see this and it is trickling down to the hobbiest.

Almost every forum has their "Elite" members who like to trade amongst themselves and keep their sources to their little circle of friends. I have even heard some these people talk down to others simply because they don't have all of the super utlimate rare corals. I used to defend these people when it would be brought up that "They only trade amongst themselves", after all it is their stuff, they can trade and sell to whoever they want, but when they started looking down on others, because they thought their stuff was superior, therefore making them superior, I drew the line.

As I've said before, This hobby is going downhill because of practices like this.

 

[oceaninabox]

If you are into the LE hype, it's a great idea, if your not into it, it's a dumb idea. I also don't think you will ever change anyone's mind on how they feel about this situation.

I myself think LE, not only is an improper use for the terminolgy, is a waste of time, because there is no way to actually prove any lineage and second it devalues any corals that don't have lineage even if it is the exact same coral.

Now before anyone gets their panties in a bunch about proving lineage, let me give you just one of many scenerios that could happen.

So lets say I go to a frag swap and buy a piece that just so happens to be just like what my friend has, who can claim lineage. I need to make a few bucks and want to claim lineage on my no-name piece, so I get him to agree that he sold me a frag 2 years ago and now my frag has lineage.

Now what good is a COA? If you are good with designing on a PC, you could forge a COA. The idea of a holograph is cool, but it will only prove that the original person who bought it has the real deal, anything after that could be a fake.

Unfortunately this hobby is driven more and more by ego's and greed. You just have to read the backstabbing and trash talking that goes on by importers to see this and it is trickling down to the hobbiest.

Almost every forum has their "Elite" members who like to trade amongst themselves and keep their sources to their little circle of friends. I have even heard some these people talk down to others simply because they don't have all of the super utlimate rare corals.

As I've said before, This hobby is going downhill because of practices like this.

For one thing thats called FRAUD. And yes in this country that is illigeal and you could be sued over it. But, it happens every day. :tongue:

 

[oceaninabox]

I did not say anything bad or that has not already been said. I am not trying to tarnish anyones image, I did not say i would not purchase from this vendor again.

Actually the opposite, I like what I got and understand corals can change colors.
If OAIB has any more "look a Likes" then I would buy them in an instant, just because the LE's are usually more extraordinary colored and I am trying to get a colorful garden of corals as is everyone else.

OIAB should just say there his, example (OAIB Mystic Sunset) it is just as nice as the original but it has his name. But when you buy a coral and it doesn't look like the LE version when you first get it, you wont be saying oh well it will color up, you will be saying he sold me a fake. IF he stamps it OIAB "mystic Sunset" then what you see is what you get.

I would take pride in having the rights to a new coral even if it looks like someone else's (ex. mystic sunset). I would have made a different name such as OIAB "name here"

Please don't delete my post I am not bashing, it just looks like you are trying to protect a sponser when I did not say anything untruthfull or anything that hasn't already been said by your more than 1 post members.

Point very well taken, thank you!!!!

 

[I-K@ndY]

We going back in circles... Same discussion .. Same result.. Different header , same result.....

 

[Psychographic]

For one thing thats called FRAUD. And yes in this country that is illigeal and you could be sued over it. But, it happens every day. :tongue:

I think you just helped make one of my points.

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

I did not say anything bad or that has not already been said. I am not trying to tarnish anyones image, I did not say i would not purchase from this vendor again.

Actually the opposite, I like what I got and understand corals can change colors.
If OAIB has any more "look a Likes" then I would buy them in an instant, just because the LE's are usually more extraordinary colored and I am trying to get a colorful garden of corals as is everyone else.

OIAB should just say there his, example (OAIB Mystic Sunset) it is just as nice as the original but it has his name. But when you buy a coral and it doesn't look like the LE version when you first get it, you wont be saying oh well it will color up, you will be saying he sold me a fake. IF he stamps it OIAB "mystic Sunset" then what you see is what you get.

I would take pride in having the rights to a new coral even if it looks like someone else's (ex. mystic sunset). I would have made a different name such as OIAB "name here"

Please don't delete my post I am not bashing, it just looks like you are trying to protect a sponser when I did not say anything untruthfull or anything that hasn't already been said by your more than 1 post members.

Good post! I hope you understand and please stick around a be a part of the community. Our sponsors know that we are not going to protect them from bad feedback, just feedback from someone brand new to the site. There is no way to discern who might be for real and who might be causing trouble.

 

[oceaninabox]

I think you just helped make one of my points.

How do you figure? If you alter a COA then you are committing fraud. It's that simple!

 

[mrgreenthumb]

all i can say is CORAL KARMA haha what goes around comes around, I guess thats why i just buy from my select source of friends online stores and lfs's to prevent stuff like this.!! However this WILL happen and always will, there will always be cheaters, hackers, and so on. There are always going to be people trying to turn a quick buck off a new fad or le, no getting around it!! I think that is part of the point of having a coa......People are always going to cheat the system though, and make their own coas or copy's of a friends......sounds like some of you have already done this with how it is being talked about haha.JUST KIDDING. What the buyer does with his or her coa after he purchases a coral with coa is the responsibility of the buyer not the issuer of the coa! If they want to give a copy of it to a firend who has a coral that looks exactly the same, well thats their business and has nothing to do with the original issuer of the coa!! It is a shame that there are lyers like this out there, but the truth of the matter is that they are out there and they will do this with or without a coa!!! I just don't see how that is even an issue in this conversation!! Your firends coa is still good because he still has the original, however the lying firend's coa is also good(if indeed the corals are identical) because he is cheating the system, unfortunate i know, but just part of this hobby, thus the term buyer beware!! These people cheating the system and copying coa's have to sleep with themsleves at night!! Unfortunatly our entire world is driven be ego(pride) and greed, so it doesn't suprise me to hear this haha!! I agree the elitus attitude has to go, no room for it, and the hobby is going downhill from this, but it is not going downhill because of le's or coa's, nothing wrong with people wanting cool corals and proof to go with it!! I guess my question to the people who keep bringing up lineage and what happens when the person with the coas sells it, or what happens if someone copies it etc. etc. is what does that have to do with the original issuer of the coa? What happens after he or she sells a coral with a coa is completely out of their control, and furthermore, i really don't think it matters to them!! They cannot control and regulate everyone thereafter who buys and sells his or her coa'd coral.

 

[mrgreenthumb]

We going back in circles... Same discussion .. Same result.. Different header , same result.....

cool thanks for pointing that one out haha way to contribute!!! stir that pot throw some wood on that fire c'mon you already basically joined in by your comment, might as well get up to your head, that water is warm!!!

 

[iani]

You guys are confusing the issue. A COA is strictly a document that certifies the coral is "AS STATED". You are confusing it with "lineage". Think about it like this, when you buy a pure bred "BEAGLE" or any pure bred for that matter. When you buy the breed you can get a certification paper from the AKC which indicates that this breed is pure bred "AKC Certificate". They dont send you a pedigree or in this case "lineage" as that requires more time and additional payments to process. What I am posing is to offer a COA certificate only to my customers. No difference IMO. It will be an OIAB certified coral. Got it?

So now you are changing your mind from what you originally created this thread for? I think if anyone is confused its you. Why not say you were wrong and move on. Your last statement directly contradicts these pervious two. Do you not remember typing them?

Thats what Im talking about. Im not talking about a typical blue or red zoanthind or even some of the crazy palys like AOG's or Armegeddons. Im talking strictly the LE stuff that people pay big bucks for like, but not limited to:

Tyree Watermelon
Original or Oregon Mummy Eye Chalice
Emerald Mummy Eye Chalice
AfterBurner Chalice
Flamethrower Chalice
Mystic Sunset Montipora
True Undata Montipora
Bazooka Joe Chalice
BubbleGum Monster
Zuniga Pink Lemonade SPS
Lime in the Sky SPS
Bali Tricolor SPS
Berry Garcia Chalice
Goldfinger Chalice
Mike Paletta corals
Steve Tyree corals

ETC ETC ETC............

Mosly what Im talking about are the one's that are always brought into question.

Hmmm, very interesting debate going on here. I see some interesting tidbits I would like to focus on. One is price. I come from the school that an item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. So why by adding a COA would I inflate the price? If your not going to pay $200 for the piece whay would you now pay $250-$300? Doesnt make since to raise the price. I think it only adds credibility to the purchase and also the buyer feels a since of comfort in buying a legitimate product. The second is the "credible buyer" remarks I keep seeing pop up. Your exactly right, how do you know your even getting what your getting? It's called a credible source. I could lie to you all day long and tell you my "mystic sunset" montipora was of tryee liniage and I could COA it and you would never know the diff, but want I want is your long term business and not just a quick sell. If I keep your business and you tell others about me as a reputable seller in this business, I win and get more business driven to me. If I lie, eventually I will be found out and my business will be affected. What I am talking about with the COA is true liniage and proof that the coral is what you think it is. For example, one idea Im thinking about is I just aquired a large colony of Sunset Montipora with Tyree Liniage. If I sell you this piece and provide you a COA, I will also provide you with the liniage. For example on my certificate it would say something like, This sunset montipora has the fllowing liniage prior to this sell:

Steve Tyree to
Hugo Zuiga to
reefboy to
marko9 to
OIAB to the person in posession of this COA

Just one example.

 

[I-K@ndY]

cool thanks for pointing that one out haha way to contribute!!! stir that pot throw some wood on that fire c'mon you already basically joined in by your comment, might as well get up to your head, that water is warm!!!

I live in eastcoast and my opinion doesn't count. We all just buy and pay high price :bigsmile:

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

I live in eastcoast and my opinion doesn't count. We all just buy and pay high price :bigsmile:

LOL! So true! :tongue:

 

[I-K@ndY]

LOL! So true! :tongue:

Thanks Rev for agreeing with me :tongue:

 

[Psychographic]

How do you figure? If you alter a COA then you are committing fraud. It's that simple!

And you said fraud is committed every day, why would the coral trade be any different?

 

[Psychographic]

You guys are confusing the issue. A COA is strictly a document that certifies the coral is "AS STATED". You are confusing it with "lineage". Think about it like this, when you buy a pure bred "BEAGLE" or any pure bred for that matter. When you buy the breed you can get a certification paper from the AKC which indicates that this breed is pure bred "AKC Certificate". They dont send you a pedigree or in this case "lineage" as that requires more time and additional payments to process. What I am posing is to offer a COA certificate only to my customers. No difference IMO. It will be an OIAB certified coral. Got it?

Just a question, not a disagreement, don't you get at least the parents of the dog listed with an AKC Cert?

 

[All Delight]

So now you are changing your mind from what you originally created this thread for? I think if anyone is confused its you. Why not say you were wrong and move on. Your last statement directly contradicts these pervious two. Do you not remember typing them?

Awesome....Touche :surrender:

 

[oceaninabox]

The COA project is something that is in the works. I havent changed my my mind about anything. It is not something that has even been started yet. There are many variations and adjustments that can happen. So rather than trying to discredit me for something which has not even been finalized, why not give a little credit for someone trying to create a little excitement in the hobby. If you dont like the idea or you think im dishonest, then dont buy from me. I have many happy satisfied repeat customers that come back time and time again because I give them value. The customer determines value and since your not a customer you wont see the value in what I offer. WOW, I am so surprised at all the finger pointing that you folks do in this hobby. Im surprised you even have any fun with it. Somebody tries to be creative and add a new spark and all you want to do is rip em apart. "LAST POST" thanks for all the ideas guy's.

 

[cdbias2]

What ever happened to just a plain old receipt stating what you purchased and when and who it was purchased from.
Like all receipts.
Why does it have to be called a COA?
A receipt can be copied legally to pass along to the 2nd generation frag buyers.
I have seen people offer copies of receipts from ATL.
No, it's not proof, but neither is that AKC registration. People pay a small fortune for those and they are only as good as the persons word who signed it.

If you are trying to make a COA a one time receipt it has to purely be for money.
The 2nd and third transaction/generations are when that receipt is valuable. Not the first.
Surely the first person who bought it knows who they bought it from from.

 

[aquarius77]

What ever happened to just a plain old receipt stating what you purchased and when and who it was purchased from.
Like all receipts.
Why does it have to be called a COA?
A receipt can be copied legally to pass along to the 2nd generation frag buyers.
I have seen people offer copies of receipts from ATL.
No, it's not proof, but neither is that AKC registration. People pay a small fortune for those and they are only as good as the persons word who signed it.

The 2nd and third transaction/generations are when that receipt is valuable.
Surely the first person who bought it knows who they bought it from from.

I agree, and i voted no after watching this thread.

 

[oceanparadise1]

who cares about COA if you like it then dang it buy it!! why does it matter whos tank it was in??? is tyrees tank magical???NO!!!