What do you think about COA's

[mrgreenthumb]

The irony in all this is that you have managed to passionately discuss a topic for pages but have yet to spell it right

this is what i was reffering to

 

[Solitaryensis]

this is what i was reffering to

So the next time you walk into a doctors office and he writes up a couple pages about your broken bone, all the while spelling it wrong, dont mention it to him. You might be choosing to take the wrong thing away from the discussion

 

[Solitaryensis]

I am hard pressed to believe that this is supposed to benefit the consumer in anyway. The reality is, this is another way for vendors to make money. PLEASE keep in mind that I am in no way advocating that retailers shouldn’t make a profit, after all, that’s what folks are in business for but lets be honest here: this is another way to market and markup corals. Doesn’t make you a bad person but lets be real.

I don’t think most people are against the idea of being able to authenticate a coral but here are the problems I see:
(1) – Given that all we normally consider in the identification of a coral is shape and color, there is a degree of skepticism that goes into certifying a line of corals as one thing, when in fact it could be another. For the most part, coral shipments do not contain just one of any kind of coral. Ordinarily, you get at least 2-3 pieces that look, and are probably, identical. If I decide buy one of those corals before you label it, do I have the same coral after you have labeled it? In other words, labeling disproportionably benefits store owners against the interests of some consumers, as many hobbyists/consumers are in fact small business owners as well that do sell and trade frags
(2) – How would one ensure that COAs aren’t being used frivolously? This reminds me a bit of the AKC and how they have managed (over many years) to be viewed as the authority of identifying blood lines for dogs. There are many other organizations out there that do the same exact thing but for the most part, only the AKC is trusted to do this. How would you ensure that you become the “AKC” and not Joe Schmoe that labels his corals? How do you ensure two retailers that get the same exact piece aren’t “mislabeling” or using two different names and selling/advertising the corals as such.
(3) – Many people, including me, believe that COAs and labels serve to drive prices up. Sure, we need an easy way to identify corals that are common or traded amongst hobbyists but at what point do we draw the line? At what point do we say enough is enough and we refuse to pay an extra 50% because a coral has a name attached to it. A perfect example of this is what ORA does. I think they are a great organization that has done great things for the hobby but it is completely unreasonable, IMHO, to put a name on a very common coral, frag it up and sell one frag for what an entire colony should and does sell for.
(4) Nothing personal but I think some have disagreed with your idea because it doesn’t sound as if you have thought it all the way through. At the end of the day its just corals but if you want to implement something like this, it requires some degree of though past using a label. These are questions that you should have been prepared to field when you had the idea and decided to post in a public forum. Part of getting people to buy in is to know what you are talking about and showing others that you have put some thought into this.

 

[All Delight]

I really like this thread.

 

[bamachamp92]

I have one question for you, I have a tank full of LE corals and ORA. I did not buy my corals to resale but we all know this happens as colonies grow out someone says hey I want a frag of that or Ill trade you this for that.If this starts will my pink lemonade or garf bonsai or ORA Borealis be worth any less than someone who has a COA or am I going to have to come back to you or any other vendor to get a COA for something I bought 6 months ago? I keep a spreadsheet of what I got and who I got it from. But all I have to back that up is word of people I have purchased these corals from. If someone has bought a coral from you in the past and you start to put a COA on that coral are you going to go back and write a COA for that person? Dont take this as a personal attack but if you want to discuss this, I just had a few concerns.

 

[cdbias2]

Who's the one that decides what coral gets certified? Do they do this for free or are they doing it just because they are selling them?

 

[reefboy]

I am hard pressed to believe that this is supposed to benefit the consumer in anyway. The reality is, this is another way for vendors to make money. PLEASE keep in mind that I am in no way advocating that retailers shouldn’t make a profit, after all, that’s what folks are in business for but lets be honest here: this is another way to market and markup corals. Doesn’t make you a bad person but lets be real.

I don’t think most people are against the idea of being able to authenticate a coral but here are the problems I see:
(1) – Given that all we normally consider in the identification of a coral is shape and color, there is a degree of skepticism that goes into certifying a line of corals as one thing, when in fact it could be another. For the most part, coral shipments do not contain just one of any kind of coral. Ordinarily, you get at least 2-3 pieces that look, and are probably, identical. If I decide buy one of those corals before you label it, do I have the same coral after you have labeled it? In other words, labeling disproportionably benefits store owners against the interests of some consumers, as many hobbyists/consumers are in fact small business owners as well that do sell and trade frags
(2) – How would one ensure that COAs aren’t being used frivolously? This reminds me a bit of the AKC and how they have managed (over many years) to be viewed as the authority of identifying blood lines for dogs. There are many other organizations out there that do the same exact thing but for the most part, only the AKC is trusted to do this. How would you ensure that you become the “AKC†and not Joe Schmoe that labels his corals? How do you ensure two retailers that get the same exact piece aren’t “mislabeling†or using two different names and selling/advertising the corals as such.
(3) – Many people, including me, believe that COAs and labels serve to drive prices up. Sure, we need an easy way to identify corals that are common or traded amongst hobbyists but at what point do we draw the line? At what point do we say enough is enough and we refuse to pay an extra 50% because a coral has a name attached to it. A perfect example of this is what ORA does. I think they are a great organization that has done great things for the hobby but it is completely unreasonable, IMHO, to put a name on a very common coral, frag it up and sell one frag for what an entire colony should and does sell for.
(4) Nothing personal but I think some have disagreed with your idea because it doesn’t sound as if you have thought it all the way through. At the end of the day its just corals but if you want to implement something like this, it requires some degree of though past using a label. These are questions that you should have been prepared to field when you had the idea and decided to post in a public forum. Part of getting people to buy in is to know what you are talking about and showing others that you have put some thought into this.

I agree with most of your post but do you buy direct from ORA because I think there prices are quite fair we as vendors mark them up so I'd be blaming us for the high prices not ORA there prices havnt changed in the three years I've been buying from them.

 

[ReefDoctor]

I would like to see like a geneology page that you could get with a LE coral.. simply like the following example. It would not really require any legal papers simply diligence on the part of US as collectors to mantain the line... and LOL of course this could also easily drive price as it is "lineaged"

*fictional path of unamed coral

Unnamed Importer - sold to
Reeftec designs - aquired by
Ron Johncola - sold to
Hugo Zunia - passed to
Steve Tyree - sold to
Lam Nyguen - traded to
Chris Fry - traded to
Todd Cherry - sold to
Joe smith... end consumer

I have had many collectors ask me for this very type of information...

Like a Family tree of the path the coral took to get to an individule for sale or trade

 

[oceaninabox]

My whole point is this. My view of what I would be using a COA for is simply to state to the person that what I am selling them is a true and factual piece of ????? Whatever!

Thats all!!! Some say that this is a way for vendors to increase profits and I strongly disagree. For me, it has nothing whatsoever to do with profits. I want my customer to know if I state that a piece of "TYREE WATERMELON CHALICE" has a COA that that chalice is from the direct line that came from Steve Tyree himself and not a hybrid that looks like it (which I have many of). What in the world is wrong with that. Like I said, for the most part the people that are complaining about this whole thing are the ones that "EXPECT" the coral is the factual LE to begin with. Looking over your posts, I can count on 2 hands by name some of you that have emailed me on more than one occasion and asked about the "LINEAGE". If it doesn't matter to you then whats the big deal? It should simply be a bonus then. Everything has to become an argument when it comes to stating a name of a coral. Orange Envy....$600 per polyp a few years back. Whats the first thing people asked?

Where did they come from?
Who did they come from?
Do you have the lineage?

$600 bucks a polyp and thats without any authentication whatsoever. Unreal!!!!! So yes, I think a lot of the misconception will stay at the door when vendors start using COA's. There is a big difference between the hobbyist and the collector. The hobbyist buys it regardless of where it came from and likes it because it looks nice and they want it in there tank. The collector wants it because it his LE or hard to come by. Ironically, I cant tell you how many people just by reading this thread have emailed me asking for COA's from corals I have sold them in the past and love the idea. So, well see how it all pans out. It will be interesting none the less. For those watching my grammer and spelling, I used spell check and I think all my punctuation is correct.

 

[ReefDoctor]

OIAB is spelled wrong

 

[oceaninabox]

OIAB is spelled wrong

I just cant seem to get anything right these days!

 

[Ian]

The whole reason people are asking if your corals have lineage is that you sell more than one coral on your site/ebay where you copied the name of a newly established LE coral. Corals that have not yet been widely distributed yet you have enough to make new ebay listings for those corals every other week.

If I were to get a transshipped box of corals and there was a green w/ orange eye chalice in the box, to avoid any confusion, I wouldn't give it the name 'Oregon Mummy Eye'... I wouldn't care how similar it looked...

Thefragguys . com have a green w/ red polyp and purple rim monti. Do they call it Jedi Mind Trick? No, they don't because they don't want to misrepresent what they are selling, in turn losing creditibility with serious collectors...

I have 3 different green w/ red polyps and purple rim. I don't call them Jedi Mind Trick monti BECAUSE THEY AREN'T THE JEDI MIND TRICK MONTI!!!

This is my 3rd or post that says the same thing. The first few may have been a little vague so I hope this post is a little more to the point...

 

[AquaWorldPSC]

Bigian,
I totally see where your coming from. I have to agree, I hate when people misrepresent a coral or sell non-lineaged corals like they were lineaged or something. Like you said it does make you look bad when you sell misrepresented corals. I also agree that once you receive credibility of selling rare named corals they shouldn't need any COA or anything like that, in turn the customer will use your receipt as lineage. But only once you receive the credibility like fragfarmer, worldwidecorals and etc...

 

[AquaWorldPSC]

I say just provide lineage and call it a day! That's all we do...

 

[Solitaryensis]

For those watching my grammer and spelling, I used spell check and I think all my punctuation is correct.

Actually...you spelled grammer wrong. Oh, the irony...

 

[Ian]

I say just provide lineage and call it a day! That's all we do...

Thats too easy!!

 

[oceaninabox]

I dent no thiz wuz a spellin bee contess...opppssss

 

[Reef Pets]

hukt on fonix wurkt for me

 

[oceanparadise1]

lol you guys are to funny! i have to say, i HATE when people try to point out others mistakes, we are typeing fast for goods sake! this isnt an essay thats we are having graded now is it?!?! LOL im currently working on my master but bc i messed up one word or sumthing(lol) im a moron now!

 

[addocdreefer]

it seems like all this LE stuff is just like all the overhyped marketing stuff going on to get you feeling like you're miising out if you don't have "OUR SPECIAL EDITION ONE OF A KIND". playing on human nature to feel all superior because we have something no one else has. most of these corals are only rare and exotic because they are a certain prettier color form of a not so rare species. So if a said coral is the species you are looking for and the color you are looking for then why do you have to spend more money than the next guy to feel good about it?
the COA looks like feel good politics that really doesn't solve any problems that are intended to be and opens the door for unethical people to take advantage of this human need to feel special. the whole thing seems rather silly to me.