What do you think about COA's
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Ummm, yeah i got your point the first time. Yes, I sold a similar coral that I called "BLUE RIM JEDI". What the heck is wrong with that? I didnt misrepresent anything. If you question lineage you can always ask. YET ANOTHER GREAT REASON TO HAVE COA'S. Personally, I think your getting a little off track. Every website calls their corals something and many of them have reference to similar corals or similar names to a lot of the LE stuff. Like I said, if in doubt....ASK!!!!!! And quite honestly, I think your sharp enough to figure that out. Look at all the corals that have the name Superman, Fire Ice, Watermelon, PurpleHaze, Bonsai, Alien Eye etc.... It's each sellers marketing point to represent their items. It's no difference than calling the Oregon Mummy Eye by it's name. After all, wasnt Mummy Eye already taken? Oh, and you spelled "creditability" wrong.
Ian
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The coral I saw was called 'mind trick' the other 'mystic sunset'... and you wonder why all these people ask if you have lineage.
Worldwidecorals has a orange w/ green polyp monti and to avoid confusion, they call it sunset imposter. Do you think they have people asking about lineage? They make it pretty clear that its not the real thing.
You seem to be set on these COAs so why not just do it?
Do you plan to get everyother retailer on the bandwagon, or will COAs be an OIAB exclusive? If you're the only one using this system, its kinda worthless, IMO. You can start making your own money, doesn't mean it'll be worth anything... unless you can get everyone to use it...
Then again, maybe you're on to something... you'll never know until you do it... Good luck man...
Worldwidecorals has a orange w/ green polyp monti and to avoid confusion, they call it sunset imposter. Do you think they have people asking about lineage? They make it pretty clear that its not the real thing.
You seem to be set on these COAs so why not just do it?
Do you plan to get everyother retailer on the bandwagon, or will COAs be an OIAB exclusive? If you're the only one using this system, its kinda worthless, IMO. You can start making your own money, doesn't mean it'll be worth anything... unless you can get everyone to use it...
Then again, maybe you're on to something... you'll never know until you do it... Good luck man...
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But they did call it "sunset" didnt they? Why didnt they just say "bright orange" monti? Because they wanted people to come and look at it just like you did. And that is marketing 101.
I am going to do the COA thing and personally it doesnt matter to me if anyone else does it or not. Im not trying to rally anyone. I like being the pioneer or as you said, "exclusive". The whole purpose with this thread was to see what people thought about the idea. Just a value added service to my customers thats all. Thanks everyone for all your thoughts. It really helps when your in business to get as much info about ideas and to be as creative as one can. Helps one to grow and learn.
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bump!
iani
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When someone says sunset imposter, obviously its a fake sunset. When someone says mystic sunset or jedi monti that is a lot different from saying mystic sunset imposter or jedi monti imposter. I don't understand how you don't get this.
I think you are going to be flat out wasting you time with COAs. Why call is some fancy name when its just a list of lineage. Marketing 101, that is all this is about and you admitted it. Its a pointless effort to market your coral different from other vendors.
Also, did you bother about asking the people named in the line of lineage (where the coral came from) if they mind if you put their names on the COA? I bet some people wouldn't want to be listed as they don't want people bothering them about the coral.
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BigIan/Ianwane, will the real one please stand up...LOL. On eBay if you use the word "imposter" "like" "reproduction" "fake" etc... they cancel the auction. On the website my mystic sunset says "NON TYREE" isnt that clear enough? Anyway, your just looking to argue now, so I'll stop here. I've made my point.
iani
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Seriously? The same person? Its been stated here many times that we are different people. Are you that dense? Also, again you just ignore my valid points. You've been doing that this whole thread. BTW, I've seen the auctions for the mystic sunset before and it did not say "NON TYREE". I just assumed it wasn't since it didn't really look like if from the picture.
And, I still want you to answer this.
And, I still want you to answer this.
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Gentlemen please stay civil. These are great threads to debate as long as we can be nice to one another.
Carry on.
Carry on.
2 points,
#1
Back to my "rare" thread. I realize that there are some rare corals. However, take a walk through most any online coral retailer or Ebay. How many are labeled "Rare?" Most of them. I find it hard to believe that most retailers and most Ebay sellers have such a large stock of "rare" corals. Here's a prime example. Acans. Several years back, Acans were given away by LFS or sold very cheap just to get you in the store to buy the more expensive corals. Now, everywhere you look, Acans are sold as "rare" and at a rediculous price. Here's a link to a great article that pretty much proves this...
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/ebac/index.php
2nd point:
It's already been stated that the COA or naming of corals has to do with "Marketing 101." Yet it was also stated that this, in now way, should make COA corals any more expensive. I'm sorry, but "Marketing 101" would also teach that a retailer doesn't spend money unless it's going to make them more money. So...spending the money to create and keep up with a COA is going to cost money. It's going to cost time as well. Let's say I purchase a COA coral. A year later, I frag it and sell 4 frags...there's 4 more COAs that have to be generated. I'm not the one that generates them, the retailer who authenticates with a COA will need to generate them. Is this service offered for free? What about a year later, when each of those 4 frags are each fragged 4 times? Now 16 more COAs need to be generated.
Okay, another point....I know, I said only 2....sorry
Earlier, I commented that I believe that if something is going to authenticated as a Steve Tyree LE coral, wouldn't the COA need to originate from Steve Tyree himself? I know I mentioned this, and someone else asked about getting permission from the person who's name you're using. Neither of these comments were addressed. I think both are very valid concerns. If I were someone who's name was being used, I'd be very concerned about the process. I'd want to make sure that 2 years down the road, my name isn't being used to fraud others. So, once again, if a COA is to be considered valid, especially after frags have been traded or sold and need to be re-certified, I'd expect the COA to originate with the person who's name is on the coral.
Okay, enough...lol.
I do think this is a great thread, and possibly a great tool for those "collectors" that are so different from "hobbyists." However, I just see a few holes in the implimentation process.
#1
Back to my "rare" thread. I realize that there are some rare corals. However, take a walk through most any online coral retailer or Ebay. How many are labeled "Rare?" Most of them. I find it hard to believe that most retailers and most Ebay sellers have such a large stock of "rare" corals. Here's a prime example. Acans. Several years back, Acans were given away by LFS or sold very cheap just to get you in the store to buy the more expensive corals. Now, everywhere you look, Acans are sold as "rare" and at a rediculous price. Here's a link to a great article that pretty much proves this...
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/ebac/index.php
2nd point:
It's already been stated that the COA or naming of corals has to do with "Marketing 101." Yet it was also stated that this, in now way, should make COA corals any more expensive. I'm sorry, but "Marketing 101" would also teach that a retailer doesn't spend money unless it's going to make them more money. So...spending the money to create and keep up with a COA is going to cost money. It's going to cost time as well. Let's say I purchase a COA coral. A year later, I frag it and sell 4 frags...there's 4 more COAs that have to be generated. I'm not the one that generates them, the retailer who authenticates with a COA will need to generate them. Is this service offered for free? What about a year later, when each of those 4 frags are each fragged 4 times? Now 16 more COAs need to be generated.
Okay, another point....I know, I said only 2....sorry
Earlier, I commented that I believe that if something is going to authenticated as a Steve Tyree LE coral, wouldn't the COA need to originate from Steve Tyree himself? I know I mentioned this, and someone else asked about getting permission from the person who's name you're using. Neither of these comments were addressed. I think both are very valid concerns. If I were someone who's name was being used, I'd be very concerned about the process. I'd want to make sure that 2 years down the road, my name isn't being used to fraud others. So, once again, if a COA is to be considered valid, especially after frags have been traded or sold and need to be re-certified, I'd expect the COA to originate with the person who's name is on the coral.
Okay, enough...lol.
I do think this is a great thread, and possibly a great tool for those "collectors" that are so different from "hobbyists." However, I just see a few holes in the implimentation process.
All Delight
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Yah can you imagine being on the list of coa and getting emails or pm's everyday to verify that?
Yep, or having to be the LFS that's having to generate a new COA every few days....what a lot of paperwork to keep track of and postage stamps to lick...lol.
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So what you guys are saying is if you bought a frag from tyree or from his booth at cfm or one of his auctions, that you woulnd't want a coa or receipt or some sort of proof that the coral is indeed what you are paying for? Seems to me like the majority of people like to try to point out every single little flaw with this system. Of course its not perfect! It is a start! As far has having to provide coas for every person that that coral is sold to? C'mon thats just crazy talk!! It would be the responsibility of the person selling the coral to provide a copy of his coa to the new buyer, not the original seller!!! Why should the original issuer of the coa have to make more for free for their customer who is profiting by selling it? Be real people!! What this comes down to is getting what you paid for. If yoiu pay 250 for a tyree original alien eye watermelon chalice, well it better be a tyree original alien eye watermelon! What would be worng with having some proof to go with it. Not every coral will be able to be lineaged, or authenticated!!! I think this would be used for a select handfull of corals, not every single coral every single retailer is trying to sell. I mean correct me if i'm wrong perry, but when you start doing this you probably would issue coas for only a few of your corals correct? Afterburner, oregon mummy eye, goldeneye watermelon? I mean how hard is it to provide lineage for something when you get it dircetly from the original source of the coral? I just can't see a retailer selling a coral that passed through 5 or 6 hobbyist before it gets to them, when they can get it directly from the source! I think most people are reading way to far into this and not taking it for what its worth. Furthermore a few of you are spending to much time talking about a particular reatailer and situations which are taking away from this conversation as a whole. Its about the big picture. This would be a service to us the consumers! The whole driving the prices up argument is bogus!!! The demand grows exponentially once a coral becomes a tyree. Therefore the price goes up with it! The demand for these le's is so much greater than the supply, and growth rates, that the prices have to be raised to account for this! So tell me how issuing a coa with an le coral would drive the price up substantially more? How long does it take to set up a couple templates and fill in the blanks and press print? 8 hours for templates 5 mins everytime thereafter to press print and fill in the blanks? No different than printing off an invoice!! I tell you what(haha) i get my le's for a few reasons!! 1 because i am a collector AND a HOBBYIST!! 2 because le are usually some of the brightest examples and most dramatic colorations of said coral species!! 3 because the coral has been in captivity for awhile and and is adapted to it. 4 there is somewhat of a gaurntee that the coral is going to hold its color in your tank since its been in captivity and held its color under varying conditions thus far. If a retailer is going to offer me a bit of tangible proof to go along with the purchase, hey i'm all for it!! There are alot of "understood" gaurntee's that come along with an le coral, thats part of what makes them so appealing!!!
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You guys are confusing the issue. A COA is strictly a document that certifies the coral is "AS STATED". You are confusing it with "lineage". Think about it like this, when you buy a pure bred "BEAGLE" or any pure bred for that matter. When you buy the breed you can get a certification paper from the AKC which indicates that this breed is pure bred "AKC Certificate". They dont send you a pedigree or in this case "lineage" as that requires more time and additional payments to process. What I am posing is to offer a COA certificate only to my customers. No difference IMO. It will be an OIAB certified coral. Got it?
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Yes, You are correct! this is mainly for my LE OIAB named corals. Unless I make a purchase with a true liniage which has been verified. Im glad somebody actually gets it.
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Golf Reefer, I edited your post since we do not allow first time posters to comment on vendor experiences. The reason being we get a lot of bogus info just to try and harm or tarnish the reputation of a business. You should express your concerns via Pm or email to the company in question. Also once you have been active on the forums here and you want to leave feedback then you would do so in the vendor feedback forums.
Thanks.
Thanks.
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This is a good point and shed the light on the "buyers view". Thanks for chiming in. To answer your question, yes the polyps were blue from the original colony. Actually a purple/blue color. I think if you are wanting to know that it is direct liniage then yes you should ask. If your going for something based off color and appearance, then you buy what you like and dont really care. I do see your point on the namesake aspect and will try harder on similar corals to make it more clear. No difference than buying a dog. Look at any of your local newspapers under dogs. Go down the list and look at all the ones that say "AKC". Does that mean the guy that has the boxer puppies without papers, his dog is not a boxer?
I did not say anything bad or that has not already been said. I am not trying to tarnish anyones image, I did not say i would not purchase from this vendor again.
Actually the opposite, I like what I got and understand corals can change colors.
If OAIB has any more "look a Likes" then I would buy them in an instant, just because the LE's are usually more extraordinary colored and I am trying to get a colorful garden of corals as is everyone else.
OIAB should just say there his, example (OAIB Mystic Sunset) it is just as nice as the original but it has his name. But when you buy a coral and it doesn't look like the LE version when you first get it, you wont be saying oh well it will color up, you will be saying he sold me a fake. IF he stamps it OIAB "mystic Sunset" then what you see is what you get.
I would take pride in having the rights to a new coral even if it looks like someone else's (ex. mystic sunset). I would have made a different name such as OIAB "name here"
Please don't delete my post I am not bashing, it just looks like you are trying to protect a sponser when I did not say anything untruthfull or anything that hasn't already been said by your more than 1 post members.
Actually the opposite, I like what I got and understand corals can change colors.
If OAIB has any more "look a Likes" then I would buy them in an instant, just because the LE's are usually more extraordinary colored and I am trying to get a colorful garden of corals as is everyone else.
OIAB should just say there his, example (OAIB Mystic Sunset) it is just as nice as the original but it has his name. But when you buy a coral and it doesn't look like the LE version when you first get it, you wont be saying oh well it will color up, you will be saying he sold me a fake. IF he stamps it OIAB "mystic Sunset" then what you see is what you get.
I would take pride in having the rights to a new coral even if it looks like someone else's (ex. mystic sunset). I would have made a different name such as OIAB "name here"
Please don't delete my post I am not bashing, it just looks like you are trying to protect a sponser when I did not say anything untruthfull or anything that hasn't already been said by your more than 1 post members.
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